Unlocking the Power of Influencer Marketing in Higher Ed

Full Transcript

Enrollify_ConfessionsofaHigherEdCMO_Audio_Ep25S3E2_SarahGoldfarb_Version1

[00:00:00] Jaime Hunt: Hi, I'm a higher ed CMO and I have a confession to make. I spend way too much time on TikTok, and this week we're gonna learn a little bit about why that's not actually a problem. We're gonna talk about influencer marketing and how you can leverage the social platforms of some of your most influencers.

[00:00:20] Students, alumni, community members to help amplify your messaging and help extend the reach of your brand. I hope you enjoy this episode and I look forward to hearing from you.

[00:00:47] Welcome to Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O, the podcast design for Higher Education marketers. I'm your host, Jamie Hunt, and I am so excited to have this opportunity to share insights and inspiration [00:01:00] with Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O. I'm designing a different kind of podcasting experience. With each episode, I'll be bringing in a guest for a deep dive into the challenges and joys we all face in higher education marketing.

[00:01:13] After each episode, you can join the conversation on Twitter by using the hashtag higher ed C M O. I would love to see this become like a book club, but for a podcast. And be sure to follow me on Twitter at at Jamie Hunt i m c, that's j a i m e h u N t i M C for more opportunities to connect.

[00:01:39] I'm so happy to, welcome to the show, Sarah Goldbar, managing director of social media and digital content at RW Jones Agency. Hey Sarah, how are you? Hi. Doing well. That's awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Um, I always start with this question and that is tell us a little bit about your higher ed journey.

[00:01:59] Sarah Goldfarb: Thanks, [00:02:00] Jamie. I'm very excited to be here today. Um, as you mentioned, I'm managing Director of Digital and social at RW Jones Agency. I've, uh, been there about six months. We started r WJ Social after I arrived in the fall. Before that, I was on campus and I spent about eight years at the University of Delaware.

[00:02:16] I oversaw a digital communications and marketing team there. Our focuses were website, social media, email marketing, and really enjoyed my time being on a campus learning so much through Covid era, but also helping with. Admissions and alumni just really touching almost every unit at, uh, the the institution.

[00:02:37] And before I decided to, uh, turn to higher ed in my career, I was a journalist. Like many people in marketing communications in higher ed, I have a similar path, but, um, when I started my career as a journalist, I was actually helping traditional print journalists bring their brands to life, uh, kind of step out behind their bylines and.

[00:02:59] Get a [00:03:00] little uncomfortable on, uh, at the time it was Twitter that was challenging, but really exciting to see some of these journalists, uh, come to life with their brands. And it was really the roots of where I discovered leveraging personalities to kind of market their brand, which I carried with me at the University of Delaware with an ambassador program and, and doing with influencer 

[00:03:18] Jaime Hunt: marketing now.

[00:03:19] That is so cool. I remember when Twitter first came out, that's the first thing I did was use it to reach out to. Reporters that were on Twitter, like reporters were posting things like, hi, ow, I'm about to do a story on blah, blah, blah. And I direct message them. I have an expert, a faculty expert that would be great on that topic.

[00:03:38] It was amazing. 

[00:03:39] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah. And that was me forcing them to uh, get on the, the platforms, get a profile photo and do a tweet. But now it's just natural. Right. No journalist isn't on that platform 

[00:03:49] Jaime Hunt: at this point. No. It's such a great way to. Build a personal brand and build a following and get people who are interested in your content.

[00:03:58] Um, that's awesome that you were sort of [00:04:00] instrumental in that drive toward that. Um, but as you mentioned, you know, you're involved in influencer marketing and that is something that I am super interested in and, uh, wanted to bring you on the podcast to talk about. But I wanted to start out. Not assuming that every listener totally understands what influencer marketing is.

[00:04:19] So I wanted to start out by defining some terms for this conversation. So from your perspective for this conversation, what does influencer marketing mean to you? 

[00:04:30] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah. And specific to higher ed, it's collaborating with people in your community, right? And in this case, it's students, alumni, faculty, staff, donors to help tell your institution's story and you're tapping into their, following their platform, maybe just their charisma to either raise awareness, um, of your college, your university to drive more applications, increase giving.

[00:04:53] There's could be all sorts of goals there, but that's the basics of using influencer marketing for institutions. 

[00:04:58] Jaime Hunt: So when we talk [00:05:00] about influencers, sometimes we talk about micro influencers. What, what are micro influencers from your perspective? 

[00:05:07] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah. And you know, marketing is hot on micro influencers right now.

[00:05:10] Um, in general, in a lot of industries they say, uh, you know, they don't cost as much. The, it basically, it means they have a smaller following. And, you know, there might be some exact definitions out there of micro influencers have 10,000 followers, but in higher ed it's really. Just utilizing students that maybe aren't mega celebrities, um, on your campus.

[00:05:30] That's how I like to look at it. Of micro influencers, they, you know, they, they have a following. They have, um, friends, they're in groups, but maybe they, they don't make their money, um, on social media because if they made it ton, they probably wouldn't be in college anyway, let's be honest. So, um, typically we're working with a lot of micro, what you would call micro influencers, um, when we're doing influencer marketing on campuses.

[00:05:52] Jaime Hunt: So when, when I think about influencer marketing and some of the work that I've done in the past, sometimes it's not always been social [00:06:00] media, it's been tapping into, for example, at Winston-Salem State, which is a historically black university, tapping into the royal court and having them be part of, um, a campaign, whether that's on social media or like literally.

[00:06:17] They're going to an event and talking about, um, a pr, a service or a piece of software that we're offering that they're talking about and sort of touting to their audiences. Do you see that as part of this conversation as well? 

[00:06:30] Sarah Goldfarb: I do. I think a good example of that. Um, Yours was a great example, but also with Covid, a lot of, uh, we leveraged ambassadors, um, on our campus to really help, um, let students know about mask policies or taking, you know, the health check.

[00:06:46] I'm sure you, you, we don't love to talk about those covid times on campus, but we really utilized ambassadors a lot there for in event experiences and just to be those people on campus 

[00:06:57] Jaime Hunt: to go to. We use a lot of athletes. To [00:07:00] talk about why they were wearing masks or why they were getting a vaccine, that kind of thing.

[00:07:05] During covid. That's a really good example, I think of times when maybe higher ed engaged in influencer marketing and maybe didn't even realize that's what they were doing. Exactly. That's, that's, um, I just, there's so many students who have such a following and such a pull. On their campuses that I, it's like we have to be tapping into that.

[00:07:29] Yeah. 

[00:07:29] Sarah Goldfarb: And athletes are the best example for that, but also Greek life, um, you know, a lot of leaders in that, or student organizations. Student government is a big one. Um, that always has a, a big 

[00:07:41] Jaime Hunt: following as well. Yeah, that's, there's so much, there's so many students that have a platform that, um, I think we need to tap into.

[00:07:49] But alumni too, um, you know, there's some very influential alumni at Ilan. A lot of campuses, I know, again, I hate to go back to Winston-Salem State again, [00:08:00] but we had Mega De, who was a super influential alumni who had, you know, everybody knew who she was. She was like, M, Mrs. W S S U alumni or whatever. Um, and tapping into her when we were doing things that might be kind of controversial, like logo changes, spirit mark changes, that kind of thing.

[00:08:20] Like get her on board with it so that she can use her platform to get others on board with it. 

[00:08:27] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah. Um, alums are really one of the best influencers in this case because they. You know, when you graduate you have a lot of rose colored glasses, feelings where, you know, even if you had like little things you didn't love about your university, we all do.

[00:08:41] Uh, you kind of gloss over those a little bit after you graduate and you become a super fan. So we do love using, utilizing 

[00:08:47] Jaime Hunt: alums. It seems like though that higher ed isn't using influencer marketing on quite the same level as other industries are, are doing it. And I think [00:09:00] about, you know, one of my recent hires was using influencer marketing a lot at the agency that she was working for like a lot, a lot.

[00:09:07] Um, that was one of her, her main tactics. Why do you think higher ed has been kind of slow to adopt, um, influencer marketing as part of their strategy? 

[00:09:19] Sarah Goldfarb: I mean, short answer, higher ed is slow to adopt a lot of trust. No, uh, um, I mean, look, I get it because you, you see the brands using influencer marketing, uh, heavily like.

[00:09:30] White Claw or a makeup brand, like it's easy to send an influencer or a six pack of hard seltzer and uh, they'll post a video about it and then you see your sales go up, right? So the ROI is easy to track. Higher ed, it's always harder. It's always the long game. It's, it's way harder to track whether it was successful.

[00:09:49] So I understand why institutions are hesitant to, to give it a try. I think it's, it's scary, you know, it's, it's. Institutions like to hold their stories, uh, close [00:10:00] and have control over the messaging. And in this case, you're, you're giving it up to somebody else to create content for you. Obviously you always storyboard you plan.

[00:10:09] Um, I think a lot of times they forget that Gen Z is so savvy that if you're in a, a partnership together, they're not gonna go to the dining hall and. Talk about how horrible the chicken nuggets are. You know, they're working with you and it's gonna be positive. So it's getting over the fear. Um, it's reallocating budgets a bit, uh, rethinking some traditional marketing that you're still continuing.

[00:10:31] Um, so it, it, I can understand why it, why it hasn't taken off, but I, I think it's 

[00:10:37] Jaime Hunt: time. Yeah, I would totally agree with you. And I think, you know, one of the things about higher ed and the slow to adoption, like when you were talking about how, you know, you can see product sales go up immediately. It's not like we can have like, use my coupon code to get 10% off your tuition or, or whatever.

[00:10:56] Um, measuring that roi, are there ways [00:11:00] that you can measure that roi or is that something that you're just sort of like, have to have faith that this is working? 

[00:11:08] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah. Yes. And, you know, coupon code, that would be hard maybe for like an application fee waiver. I don't know. That might be something there I haven't thought of.

[00:11:16] But, um, you know, we measure these similar to how you would measure how you're spending your other digital advertising dollars. Are you getting more page views? I, I know a lot of people are spending a lot of money on digital advertising, um, at institutions, whether that's paid search or Facebook or Instagram, and you're seeing page views go up, right?

[00:11:34] Are you seeing conversions? Um, Good question. I, I, I beg to differ sometimes whether they're seeing that success with the conversions of, you know, just getting people to, to, uh, book a tour or deciding whether they wanna join a mailing list. So, checking some of that. TikTok and Influencer marketing actually has really low, um, click per leads, they call it cpl.

[00:11:57] So, um, I think you would be able to [00:12:00] see, um, Measure success and see some, some gains there. I think, you know, increased following or just seeing the comments that I think that there's many ways you can measure it. Um, you know, anecdotally, uh, you know, I saw, I saw this student, you know, really talking about your university and now I wanna go there.

[00:12:19] So there, there's ways to measure it. It's, it's not as obvious as, um, some of the retail industry gets to, to have. 

[00:12:27] Jaime Hunt: Earlier you mentioned Gen Z. Um, why is influencer marketing so effective with Gen Z? 

[00:12:35] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah, I, you know, I love Gen Z. Um, their passion, their habits. Uh, I, I love studying it, but, Let's be honest, they're skeptical bunch because they, they're, they're digital negatives through and through.

[00:12:49] They understand, um, social media and digital advertising better than anybody else. And you know, when they see an a, a university or a college's institutional spot, [00:13:00] they know exactly what you're trying to sell them. Who made that? Um, They, they don't buy it as much as some of the previous generations. So a lot of our marketing strategies were created with millennials in mind.

[00:13:11] And now Gen Z is our target audience. And, and, uh, we, you know, influencer marketing has to be part of that. And although they're skeptical, they do, uh, relate to their peers. They believe in their peers. So if, if people like them or their similar age or demographics are talking great about. You know, a program you have or, you know, the, the dorms are great here.

[00:13:37] Um, they're, they're more likely to believe it. 

[00:13:40] Jaime Hunt: I love Gen Z and I think they're absolutely going to save our future as a country. Like I just, I love that they're much more raw and real and more interested in authenticity. Like it's just, N like, no offense, I'm not a millennial, so I, I, I'm [00:14:00] Gen X, but like millennials, I felt like there was just a different level of polish that you had to have on things.

[00:14:07] Um, and I just love how like raw, I guess, gen Z seems to be and how committed to their values. Gen Z seems to be. 

[00:14:17] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah. And they will, you know, if you say you're, you're a sustainable campus and you're not, they will call you out on that. So I love it. It keeps you on your toes, for sure. Yeah. But I agree.

[00:14:27] There's no more hiding behind, you know, the flashiness.

[00:14:34] Jaime Hunt: Hey all. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O. I wanna take a moment to thank my friends at mindpower who are making season two of this volfi podcast. Possible. Mindpower is a full service marketing and branding firm celebrating nearly 30 years of needle moving, thought provoking, research, fueled creative and strategy.

[00:14:54] Mindpower is woman founded and owned, W B E N C, certified nationally. [00:15:00] Recognized and serves the social sector, higher education, healthcare, nonprofits, and more. The Mindpower team is made up of strategists, storytellers, and experienced creators from market research to brand campaigns, to recruitment to fundraising.

[00:15:14] The agency exists to empower clients, amplify brands. And help institutions find a strategic way forward. You can learn more about their work in the world by heading on over to Mind Power Inc. That's M I n D P O W E R I N c.com. And be sure to tell the crew that Jamie sent you their way. Although I'm not gonna give into this, uh, center part, I'm sorry.

[00:15:37] I'm just not gonna do it. I did give up my skinny jeans though. Wow. I know that was hard. It's good for you. 

[00:15:45] Sarah Goldfarb: I'm not there quite yet either, but 

[00:15:48] Jaime Hunt: although I feel like, as, you know, a 40 something woman, I'm like just completely invisible on campus. They're not even aware that I exist anymore, but I'm still, I'm still not doing the center part.

[00:15:57] But yeah, skinny jeans, skinny jeans went. [00:16:00] Um, so when. Higher ed marketers are thinking about dipping a toe into the influencer marketing realm. What should they be considering and what needles should they consider influencer marketing as having potential to move? 

[00:16:19] Sarah Goldfarb: There's so many levels of being able to do influencer marketing, so I don't think anybody who hasn't.

[00:16:24] Done anything of what I've talked about tonight, should today, should get off, you know, the podcast and, and go hire, uh, an influencer who has, you know, 2 million followers and, and costs $20,000 for a campaign. I think there's ways to dip your, to dip your toe in and get comfortable. Look for the students who are already creating content on your campus.

[00:16:45] Um, you know, they're tagging you maybe, or they're tagging the location of the campus a lot of times. Students will do that on Instagram. They may, may not be tagging your university handle, but they'll be tagging your campus. Um, so start there. It's, it's a great [00:17:00] way. We already know they can create content.

[00:17:01] They're, they're not afraid to, to let people know where they're going to college, see if there's an opportunity there to just do some user generated or start a very small campaign. Uh, I don't think you have to go big at first. You can use ambassadors, uh, tour guides and admissions are a great place to start, so you can think small to, to get comfortable with it.

[00:17:23] Jaime Hunt: And when you think about, you know, thinking small and approaching an ambassador, what approach do you recommend? Like, do you just DM them and say, Hey, do you wanna work with us or have a proposal laid out? Or what works? 

[00:17:37] Sarah Goldfarb: There are so many times that, uh, I found great content partners by DMing them cuz that's where they are.

[00:17:42] I mean, we all know that they don't love checking their email. So there's been a lot of times that if you can get in the platform and you can follow them, they love a follow by their, their institution account, by the way. So, um, if you're really looking at starting a relationship, follow them and see, [00:18:00] uh, where that gets you and chat with them on the platform first.

[00:18:03] I love that idea. I mean, I think there's other ways if you're gonna go look for somebody in student life and make connections there through res. You know, your resident's life and housing people, you, you can be more formal. You can put out an application, uh, on your social media or through your weekly newsletters, um, that I'm sure all institutions have at this point.

[00:18:22] So there's different ways of finding influencers. I mean, there's creator marketplaces. So TikTok and Instagram have, um, these creator platforms where you can go and look who's creating content, um, on your campus. 

[00:18:35] Jaime Hunt: Oh, that's fabulous to know about, like trying to, trying to ascertain who is an influencer at your institution, when maybe what they're doing isn't necessarily about your institution.

[00:18:47] That feels really, really useful and I imagine you could probably ask other students, like if you have student workers in your office. Who do you know that has a big following, that kind of thing? 

[00:18:59] Sarah Goldfarb: Oh yeah. They all [00:19:00] know I, I've done that many times. They, they'll say Hannah, on the third floor of this hall, she always is doing the latest TikTok fad.

[00:19:07] So I went and, you know, found Hannah and sure enough, and yeah, maybe they're not tagging you if they're, you know, they're, they think they're too cool for that, but there's ways to find them for sure. 

[00:19:17] Jaime Hunt: Yeah, I think that's, I love, I love Hannah on the third floor doing the latest TikTok trend. There are so many.

[00:19:24] I just think there's just so much opportunity. We're starting with an ambassador program, but I wanna get more formally into like actually finding the, the organic influencers. But the ambassador program, we're calling it Digital Monarchs and it's cuz that's our mascot is the monarchs. Love it. But you know, having them be creating.

[00:19:45] Content, kind of setting a little bit of guidelines around what that is. You know, we don't want them with, you know, red solo cups, um mm-hmm. On, in their dorm room, on a dry campus or whatever, but kind of setting some [00:20:00] parameters of what we wanna see, but keeping it pretty broad cuz we don't want them to feel sort of constricted by us saying, this is what you have to produce.

[00:20:09] Because to your point, I feel like Gen Z can see right through that. 

[00:20:14] Sarah Goldfarb: Great example. You're right. I think we, you know, the ambassador program I ran at the University of Delaware. We never told them what to post ever. We gave them guidelines. We, you know, weekly or monthly, whatever you feel you're comfortable with.

[00:20:29] We would tell them it, it's Women's History Month or you know, earth Day's coming up. If you really care about. Um, you know, climate change like this, this could be a good time to talk about Earth Day or, uh, deadline is coming for fafsa. If you were, you know, somebody who, who, uh, has a lot of financial aid and you're comfortable talking about the FAFSA deadline, you could post about it.

[00:20:50] So we always gave them a. Um, you know, I content topic ideas, but, uh, they definitely, um, filled that in with, you know, this is day in [00:21:00] the life going to campus, uh, type content. So you're right. You have to tow that line of helping them tell your story and meet your goals and initiatives, but letting 'em do it their own way.

[00:21:11] Jaime Hunt: I I love that. I love that. So are there ways that. Influencers can support some of the things that you do in the area of crisis communications or issues management. And I know we talked a little bit about covid and using influencers for that, but if there, are there other examples of crisis scenarios or issues that you could tap into influencers and use them to kind of help with that message?

[00:21:42] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah, and this is definitely more of a delicate, um, nuanced issue. Uh, but I think there's opportunities there. I mean, if you create this relationship with your ambassadors, for instance, or, uh, you, you have a longstanding, uh, partnership with a few influencers or [00:22:00] students around campus that you feel comfortable, um, going through this with.

[00:22:04] I think that there's a few different ways you can use them during crises or issues. Um, With the caveat, they, you have to let them lead this. And if they're feeling uncomfortable or it's, you know, not natural or feeling forced, you have you back away, which is, which is fine. It runs a gamut from you're posting an institutional statement about something.

[00:22:24] Um, if they, if they're aligned with that, that message that they feel, uh, Uh, they also agree with it. They, they could post it on their ambassador or influencer accounts. They can comment on your main, um, your main post to help, uh, you know, boost some of the positivity. Again, it's, it's, it's only if they want to, right?

[00:22:44] They have to, they have to be willing and want to, but I, I've found once you have these close relationships, they're the first to come to you and they feel for you because they know that you're the, the people behind whatever crisis or issue you're dealing with, and they're like, Oh, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

[00:22:59] Do you need [00:23:00] any help? So we, you know, we got to that point, um, where, where they were wanted to help and, uh, wanted to see if, if there was a way that they could join the conversation. So, uh, you don't want like, you know, 10 of your ambassadors just talking like in the comments and making it seem so fake.

[00:23:18] But there are ways. And then, you know, on the other extreme, if there is an issue, uh, happening on campus and an influencer is posting about it on. TikTok or on Instagram? You know, I feel like a few years ago, uh, you would not touch that. You would just, you'd watch the views go up and freak out and, you know, maybe you'd have some counter statement at some point if it got so big.

[00:23:42] But I think now you have to entertain the idea of reaching out to that person and asking if they wanna talk. Do you wanna have a conversation? Um, in one case, we, we helped an institution. Uh, plan a vigil with that person that was posting negatively. Mm-hmm. And they were the co-planners. You have to [00:24:00] tread lightly and be very careful with your conversations.

[00:24:02] And, you know, in that case, we, we included several people in this message. We were messaging this influencer just to make sure the message looked good, because it could be screenshot and. In one second and post it as another TikTok of look at the university trying to be performative. So you do have to, you have to be careful, but there's opportunities there to reach out to whoever's posting a about your campus and try to start a conversation and see if there's something you can do to turn it 

[00:24:26] Jaime Hunt: around.

[00:24:27] I love that. I love, I can think of so many situations where some really influential students on campus sort of amplified the issue versus um, maybe helping support rumor squashing. And I think about the times when I had a really good relationship with some of the leaders on campus that. I was able to be like, oh, hey Amage, this is the actual situation.

[00:24:56] Um, gimme a call. If you wanna hear a little bit more about it. I would love [00:25:00] to hear your thoughts, make sure you're heard. Um, that has been so much more fruitful, I think, than, you know, the times when it's like, I don't have a relationship with this person, so I'm just sort of this faceless. Official that's telling you, Hey, you're wrong.

[00:25:17] Come talk to me. You know, it's just, I just think it's really, really a good idea to have a good relationship with the super influential, even if you're not using them for quote unquote influencer marketing. You know, being able to kind of have that relationship and tap into that, I think is helpful. 

[00:25:34] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah, you're, you're right.

[00:25:35] And you know, I think a lot of. Staffers and communications and marketing offices don't have close relationships with students because we're not super student facing. Right. And it's hard, especially if it's a larger institution of, of creating those relationships. So I, that was one benefit right there to the Ambassador program, to be honest.

[00:25:53] Um, just having a, a little focus group. Um, you know, depending on the, the, [00:26:00] the information around the issue, you know, if you feel comfortable telling them a little bit about it beforehand to see. Their thoughts or the chatter around campus. I also found 

[00:26:08] Jaime Hunt: really helpful. We had a situation, um, when I was at Miami where, um, our student intern, who was a woman of color accidentally liked a comment that was not great, um, on a post.

[00:26:24] Mm-hmm. Unfortunately, a, the students didn't know that. Who ran the account, right? They just immediately kind of jumped into this is how the university feels on this issue. And um, you know, she was scrolling and her finger bumped the heart button. You know, it's, sure. It's happened to me a bunch of times where I've been like, I didn't want this person to know I was even on their page.

[00:26:47] Now I've accidentally liked something. Um, and one of the things that we did was, um, after that like really exploded. We. Reached out and got some of the folks that had been so vocal [00:27:00] about how their institution was, you know, Terrible. Um, and, and sat down with them and then brought in some other student leaders to just sit down and talk about what their concerns were, what they would like to see from our social media account, how they thought we should have handled it.

[00:27:18] Um, because, you know, we, unlike once it was brought to our attention on Thanksgiving, um, oh gosh. Oh, I know a holiday. Always is. Um, on Thanksgiving, once it was brought to our attention, we of course unliked it, you know, that comment. Mm-hmm. And then posted something saying, you know, this was a mistake and we're very sorry that any harm was caused to our campus community.

[00:27:40] And this is not indicative of our viewpoints. Um, and just really kind of. Taking the temperature down a little bit to introduce them to us as human beings. We did not choose to put our student intern into that conversation because, um, she was feeling very vulnerable and kind of attacked by it. So, [00:28:00] um, she wasn't really necessarily comfortable in being in that space.

[00:28:04] But just like putting faces to names is such a big. Change in how people, you know, suddenly people kind of backed off and they're like, oh, you're a human being and you're obviously really committed to d e I issues. Um, this is, this isn't what I expected. I, I thought this was gonna be like a mustache twirling villain who was trying to like, destroy all of our lives or something, um, from an innocent mistake.

[00:28:29] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah. As you're speaking it, it makes me almost think that it almost should be a, a requirement that the communications and marketing office has these proactive conversations with student leaders around campus every year because they change o they turn over. Mm-hmm. You know, so quickly. And of course, you know, student affairs, provost, all those people are, have conversations with students every year, but a lot of times the communications and marketing office are not part of those, um, conversations.

[00:28:55] And I think it's so important to have those conversations beforehand. 

[00:28:59] Jaime Hunt: Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:00] Having student interns and having students that I get to mentor is just a hundred percent why I wanna do this job like this is, that's the best part. And having, you know, I'm still in touch with interns that I had literally 19 years ago.

[00:29:15] Like it is, um, amazing to see them grow and become professionals in all of that. It's the best part of the job. But you're right. Like. It's an annual thing. There's a different student body president every year. There's a different student government association cabinet every year, a different royal court.

[00:29:34] Um, there's some folks that are like, you know, popular for years and years and years, but at most, you know, four or five years, it's not Yeah. You know, the entire lifetime of the school. Um, I love that idea of making sure that you're just like really connected to those people. 

[00:29:51] Sarah Goldfarb: And bonus there, they probably are the ones that will go on to be leaders in Yeah.

[00:29:56] You know, post, uh, college as well. [00:30:00] So just having that relationship and being able to utilize them as, uh, engaged in alums would be a bonus, I 

[00:30:05] Jaime Hunt: think. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, some of the, um, students that I. Student leaders that I've worked with in the past have become some of the most influential alumni, um, because they had so many friends, like everybody knew them, right?

[00:30:20] So they're still as alumni. Really, really influential. As we're talking about this, I wanted to talk a little bit about budget. So, What kind of resources do you think marketers need to be allocating? I mean, some of it is in terms of like relationship building, that is just an allocation of time. But when you're talking about, you know, allocating budget toward a more focused, influential influencer marketing campaign, what kind of budget do you think we need to be talking about?

[00:30:50] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah, and I don't love giving the answer. It varies so widely, but it really does. So let's start small and talk about that. I think there's, there's [00:31:00] certain ambassador or micro influencer, if we're gonna go back to that term. Around campus who might be happy if you say, Hey, I'll take you to the bookstore and buy you whatever gear you want over there.

[00:31:12] While, while we're doing a shoot or while you're doing a video or, or whatever. And maybe they're happy just getting some like nice new gear. You know? There's opportunities where you don't have to pull out the big budget. I think. Uh, going back though to Gen Z, they're savvy. They know their worth. And, you know, to try to utilize these influencers for free when you're using them in marketing materials, doesn't always feel right.

[00:31:33] Um, so you're probably gonna have to spend something, unless it's like a long-term internship that you can count as, you know, work, study, or credit. I think there's there's ways for that, but you know, you're, you're probably gonna have to compensate them a little bit. It just depends on their following. If they're, if they're already doing, you know, Marketing with Red Bull and uh, you know, old Navy or something.

[00:31:58] I think there's gonna be a, a [00:32:00] different level of expectation there where, I mean, you know, some of the big name ones make like 20,000 a campaign, but I know higher ed is, is not really. Able to do that, or we're not there yet. I know, you know, if we said you're spending 20,000 on a billboard, they'd be like, oh, that's cheap.

[00:32:16] But, um, to spend 20,000 on a, a student to do an influencer campaign, I don't, I don't, I don't think any university's there right now. But, you know, I think that you can start small with, you know, I, there's something on TikTok called Spark Ads. So if, if somebody's doing a TikTok and they've already created it about your.

[00:32:36] Your university, maybe they, they, um, went to homecoming and they're a recent alum. They did a whole weekend of homecoming. They posted a TikTok about it. If you wanna, um, bump that into a spark at and have your branding on it and goes to one of your landing pages to give, or I don't know, apply, whatever makes sense, um, then you would pay that influencer maybe 500 or a thousand to [00:33:00] run an ad on their content.

[00:33:01] So there's, there's cool partnerships there that don't necessarily have to cost a ton. 

[00:33:05] Jaime Hunt: That is really, really interesting. I am curious from your, you know, as an agency, somebody that works at an agency that works with schools, how do you partner with schools on influencer marketing? Like what do you do in your role to help?

[00:33:22] Yeah, 

[00:33:22] Sarah Goldfarb: I mean, you know, I think schools are still nervous about this, so getting them comfortable, talking to 'em about it is really important. Helping them find influencers, you know, there's so many platforms out there. Some of 'em cost. Some don't. Um, it always surprises me how many institutions, um, They forget to look at TikTok on their hashtag, and it's like, you know, I mean, I force myself to look at TikTok.

[00:33:48] I mean, we, we talked about generations here. I'm millennial. I'm like, if I get on TikTok, I'm in, but sometimes I have to like basically schedule time to get on TikTok and be like, make sure to look around. So, A lot of [00:34:00] institutions aren't even looking on TikTok at what's happening around the conversation, um, a around their institutions.

[00:34:06] So just helping them find influencers is a huge part of it. Doing that outreach, this takes time. I mean, we talked about this a little bit. Um, you know, I, I don't think it takes as much time as some other marketing, uh, tools, but it takes time. So really being that person that does the outreach, that plans the content, uh, if there's a contract or budget working with them for that measuring success.

[00:34:28] Just like you would hire a, a firm to help run your Facebook ads. Maybe this is, you know, but it, it's obviously a closer relationship cuz I'm not gonna go reach out to, uh, you know, a, an engineering student that I thought just looked amazing without talking to the institution first. 

[00:34:43] Jaime Hunt: When you say that you have to schedule time to go on TikTok, I am absolutely embarrassed that as a Gen Xer, I have to schedule time to not be on TikTok.

[00:34:54] Like I, I actually had to take it off of my phone because it was like [00:35:00] every. Time I had a free minute, like, oh, I'm walking across campus. I'm gonna go on TikTok. Oh, I'm going to the bathroom. Embarrassingly enough, I'm gonna go on TikTok. Um, I had to delete it off my phone and now I allocate the 30 minutes while I'm getting ready for bed as like my time to go on TikTok.

[00:35:17] It's amazing how like three years ago, something that I was like, that's just for lip syncing teenagers or whatever. I'm like now fully, fully into. 

[00:35:29] Sarah Goldfarb: Oh yeah, recipes. I mean, there's so many things I use TikTok for, but you know, as I said, I'm, I'm always just surprised at how many people forget to look there if it's not natural, you know?

[00:35:40] I mean, there's people who are doing social and digital who are scared of TikTok and. Even Instagram a little bit, which, uh, makes me nervous as Gen Z continues to, um, become our main audiences, at least in the admissions world, um, of how many people just aren't paying attention to where they are. Yeah.

[00:35:59] Jaime Hunt: [00:36:00] Yeah. I mean, I, I was interviewing a candidate for a position today. I'm hiring, if you're listening, I guarantee I'm still hiring. I have like 16 vacant positions. Um, but I was interviewing a candidate to today and she was asking like, what people love about working in higher ed. And one of the people on the search committee was talking about how it like, keeps you young.

[00:36:23] Like you have to stay abreast of the things that. 17 to 24 year olds are involved in. And um, I just think that, that, like, if your, if your only social platform right now is Facebook personally, you still need to look into what the others are. And I would encourage you to like actually spend time in them because, and I, I'm sure that everybody who's listening to this is on multiple.

[00:36:51] Social platforms, but I just think it's such, there's such a tendency as we get older to be like, this is it. I'm not gonna learn anymore platforms. I'm not gonna [00:37:00] learn anymore technology. And we're serving an audience that is not in that space. So we need to not be in that space. 

[00:37:08] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah, we definitely need to evolve and um, you know, it's like, Be real.

[00:37:15] For instance, like I forced myself to get on Be real and uh, sometimes it feels uncomfortable, but I, you know, I need to know the platform for my job. And, um, I'm committed and I'm there to help institutions if they really don't want to get, you know, to get, to get to know all these emerging platforms. I, you know, I can be 

[00:37:34] Jaime Hunt: helpful there.

[00:37:35] How that brings me to a question about Be Real. I am also on Be Real, but, um, I'm, I'm not sure how to leverage it as a brand. Do you have any suggestions for that or are you still figuring that out? 

[00:37:49] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah, I wish I, I. There's a few institutions that are on it, but I mean, you know, it's so basic that, um, outta principle, um, that there's no [00:38:00] way to send people to your website or, or track anything.

[00:38:04] So it's really like we're talking about measuring the ROI and influencers. I mean, to be on be real, you're, you're doing it and not really knowing other than maybe if you see your following, go up, uh, or hear again hear stories like. I followed that institution on Be Real and now I wanna be here. Um, that sounds like a campaign by the way.

[00:38:23] Um. I'm on it because I don't have any insight, but I wonder if someday it might sell out or monetize and I don't wanna be left behind. Um, so I'm, I'm waiting to see. Um, and also it's just interesting to know what Gen Z's really into. Mm-hmm. Um, they love the rawness of it and just like any moment in time, you cannot fake be real it.

[00:38:46] And for those, uh, who don't really know what be real are that are listening, like you just get a push alert and you have to take a photo front facing. Uh, and your other camera and show where you are and your face in that moment. And it's, [00:39:00] um, it, there's no way to hide behind a filter or anything. So it, it's interesting to, to just see, uh, what platforms are there and what the opportunities will be in the future because I'm sure, uh, it will grow.

[00:39:13] Jaime Hunt: I love the immediacy of it and the community of it. Sort of being able to see what are my friends doing at the exact moment that I'm doing something like I just. I just love that. Although I will say that of the people I follow and myself, I feel like 90% of the times that the be real notification comes up, we're in a Zoom meeting.

[00:39:36] It's like my Be Real feed is just a whole bunch of people in a Zoom meeting. Um, cuz I guess if I'm in an in-person meeting, I'm not getting out my camera and being like, just a second, it's time to be real. Or I'm like, On my couch, or it's happened actually often while I've been recording the podcast. Um.

[00:39:51] Oh really? 

[00:39:52] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah. If it happened today, I would be like, do it. But I think it already went 

[00:39:55] Jaime Hunt: off today, so I think, I think it did when I was in a, yeah, I was interviewing a candidate. It felt [00:40:00] awkward to be like, Hey, can I like quickly get out my phone here? But in 10, 

[00:40:04] Sarah Goldfarb: 15 years, that might be the norm. 

[00:40:06] Jaime Hunt: Yeah, that's true.

[00:40:08] Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, I'm. I love how Gen Z's like Instagram feeds or their Instagram pages or whatever. I don't, I feel so embarrassed that I don't know what you're supposed to call the Instagram feed, although I've been on Instagram feed the grid. I don't know if you, yeah, their grid is not this like carefully curated, I'm posing with my hand on my hip with, you know, my face beat and false eyelashes, and it's just this much more authentic vibe.

[00:40:36] That I love about Gen 

[00:40:37] Sarah Goldfarb: Z. As I said, it's so black and white from the marketing materials that a lot of institutions are still putting out. 

[00:40:44] Jaime Hunt: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's, we're still, of course, I, if there's a listener who's not doing this, I wanna talk to you. If you are like using really raw user-generated photos that are like [00:41:00] not staged and not like, Perfectly lit and everything.

[00:41:05] If your view book is full of that kind of stuff, I want to talk to you because I have yet to see a yearbook that isn't still, and I am also doing this the like, very, very, very well shot, well lit, clearly posed, clearly staged photos. 

[00:41:25] Sarah Goldfarb: Yeah, but I mean, if we wanna get back to influencer marketing, honestly, that's another use for some of the content you're making with them, right?

[00:41:33] Mm-hmm. Um, you know, depending on how the contract is set up or your relationship, I think, you know, there's an opportunity to move it to a view book, or at least your website. You can embed vertical video now on websites. I mean, there's YouTube shorts, like there's ways to get this influencer content beyond just on their Instagram page.

[00:41:51] Jaime Hunt: I love that idea. Back in, um, I wanna say around 2008 we did our view book at the [00:42:00] institution. I was at UW Oshkosh, our view book. We did it and we called it like UW Oshkosh is my place. And we made like all of the spreads looked like a MySpace layout, which is so embarrassing in 2023. But like that sort of, Like faux social media platform.

[00:42:21] Um, I'm really intrigued by this idea of maybe, maybe it's not your main view book piece, but maybe there's a piece that you're sending out with this user generated content in it. Um, what other ideas do you have? Please fill my brain with ideas for how you might use, um, user generated content from influencer marketing.

[00:42:40] Sarah Goldfarb: I mean, yeah, I mean, you just hit it. I mean, think about putting a bunch of B reels together, like throughout the day of, of students who, you know, one is in the dining hall, one was in their, in their residence hall before they left. One was in class or one was, uh, after class on the main street. Um, so put [00:43:00] stitching 'em all together into something I think is a great idea, whether that's in print or, uh, digital or social.

[00:43:06] Um, other ways you can leverage influencers. I mean, I think. You know, think about the other pieces throughout the year that you do make commencement videos. I, I'm assuming almost every institution does that. Cause I remember us having to like scramble at University of Delaware for, for content. So, you know, thinking about leverage, how you would leverage your influencer content at a in event experience like commencement could be 

[00:43:29] Jaime Hunt: pretty cool.

[00:43:30] I love that idea, like creating back in the day, um, we would do like a hashtag and then we would curate the hashtag, you know, like pull in the best photos from graduation or whatever in, um, you know, I guess that idea is not really dead. It's an old idea, but it's something that I think we could, um, if we're not still doing it, re revitalize a little bit and think about it more as user generated content.

[00:43:58] That can help influence that, that [00:44:00] really authentic seeking generation Z. 

[00:44:03] Sarah Goldfarb: Another example I'm thinking of that we did, we, we had one student that got famous on YouTube. This is again, such a Gen Z thing doing reaction videos. So she would watch Game of Thrones and record herself watching like her reaction as she was watching it.

[00:44:19] And each of her videos would get 2 million views. And I know, and. You know, in institutions video on YouTube, you'd be happy if it's like a thousand view. Um, but somehow she was getting two a million views. So of course I reached out to her and I said, you know, we need to utilize you. So she actually did a reaction video of, um, like, All the dining hall spots, like the food, the iconic item at each of 'em.

[00:44:44] And just like she did a reaction of like her getting the food and stuff and it, you know, so just utilizing them if they're already creating content, of course, she wanted to help out our university and create content for us, not just Game of Thrones content. 

[00:44:58] Jaime Hunt: That's amazing. I kind of need [00:45:00] to Google like this chemo thrones reaction videos.

[00:45:03] I love it there. There's like, there's these two guys that do reaction videos to like old eighties music, um, that I actually enjoy watching a lot. Like they're just like, So sweet and innocent in a way, and it's, there's nostalgia there. I love it. I love it. Yeah. So if there's somebody listening who's like, I need to know more about how to leverage influencers in my marketing, do you have any resources that you can recommend for them?

[00:45:33] Sarah Goldfarb: Sure. I think that, uh, I mean, I know I talked about it earlier, but just get on the platform. Like, you know, we've all been in meetings where clearly somebody hadn't been on TikTok and they're trying to talk about it, and you're like, no, that's like once he got on the for you page, it's like, game over for the night.

[00:45:48] Like, but they, you know, they're just not understanding. Um, so one, just get yourself familiar with the platforms. Um, There's, there's like TCK newsletters out there about influencer marketing LinkedIn right [00:46:00] now. So many people are talking about this. There's a lot of people you can find if you follow a hashtag, um, to just see conversations happening about it.

[00:46:08] I have a social newsletter biweekly that I put out that sometimes I talk about influencer marketing. I think there's a lot of resources and there's not a lot that are higher ed specific. I will, I will tell you that, uh, we're kind of forging our own path. So, uh, if you wanna be a pioneer in this, now's the time.

[00:46:24] Jaime Hunt: I love that, that way of phrasing it like, let's be early adopters or you know, honestly, I guarantee that there are a ton of people listening to this who don't realize that they're already doing influencer marketing. They just aren't thinking about it in that lens. 

[00:46:42] Sarah Goldfarb: Agreed. I mean, it's a flexible term, especially in higher ed.

[00:46:44] You know, like some of the other industries that are really into it. I mean, it's like 15 billion industry, you know, like some like travel. Industry, like resorts and stuff. They spend so much money and they do influencer marketing, like it's, you know, second [00:47:00] nature. Um, they would probably look at what higher ed is doing in for influencer marketing and, you know, think it's silly, but I, I think a lot of institutions are doing it.

[00:47:08] We can just like, Like, you know, turn it up a little bit, like a notch and, you know, really capitalize on it. But I think a lot of institutions are doing this. I mean, the ambassador programs in my mind are a great use of influencers. Knowing around campus who, who, uh, has a little bit of, of pull on things is really important.

[00:47:27] So yeah, we're we're doing some of it for sure. I think, I think we could be a little bit more, um, Um, thoughtful with it. We could be a little bit, uh, less subtle with it sometimes and figure out how to use 'em more in the admissions world, I think 

[00:47:40] Jaime Hunt: would be great. Yeah, I think there's a lack of intentionality.

[00:47:45] I think that that sometimes happens where maybe we're not putting all the pieces together or thinking about it from start to finish through the enrollment cycle. How we might use influencers from, you know, beginning to end from [00:48:00] awareness to. Showing up on campus. Um, This conversation has inspired me to think about how we might use influencers to reduce melt this summer.

[00:48:11] Perhaps even increase confirms before the May one deadline, but that that summer melts, um, getting students to do the things that they need to do to be able to enroll, whether that's registered for classes, register for orientation. Pay their student tuition bill. I mean, you know, all of that stuff. Um, just having one more tool in our toolbox to help influence that, I think can be really, really powerful.

[00:48:39] So, Sarah, if people listen to this and they're like, I need to talk to Sarah, she is amazing. How can people find you? 

[00:48:46] Sarah Goldfarb: I'm on the internet because it's my job, so, um, you can Google me. I mean, I'm at sarah rw jones agency.com. I'm also on Twitter at Sarah Gold vab. Instagram at SB Gold LinkedIn. Find me. [00:49:00] Um, I, you know, I'm happy to talk on any platform, uh, TikTok.

[00:49:05] I'm there, but don't find me with any dances because I do not post. I'm more of a lurker. But, um, anyway, there's plenty of ways to find me. Just Google me and I love chatting about this. Um, don't feel like if you have to reach out, you know, that you're committed to anything. I'm always happy to chat if people wanna, uh, just 

[00:49:25] Jaime Hunt: talk through things.

[00:49:26] So awesome. So if you wanna track down Sarah, she's all over the place. If you want to have a conversation with me. And again, I really wanna hear from you if you're using user generated content in your viewbook. As always, you can uh, engage in the conversation using the hashtag higher ed cmo. And you can find me on Twitter at Jamie Hunt, I m c J A I m E.

[00:49:47] H U N T I M C. I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me at the higher ed CMO on TikTok, although there's not really much content there yet, and I would love to have a conversation with you. [00:50:00] So please do not hesitate to reach out. And Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the show, um, to talk about this fun topic.

[00:50:07] It's been a pleasure. And, um, for everybody else, let's go out and bust some silos.

[00:50:21] Sarah Goldfarb: Hey y'all. Zach here from Enroll five. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O with Jamie Hunt. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and hit that follow and subscribe button below. Furthermore, if you've got just two minutes to spare, we would greatly appreciate you leading a rating and a review of this show on Apple Podcasts.

[00:50:40] Our podcast network is growing by the month, and we've got a plethora of marketing admissions and higher ed technology shows that are jam-packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks. That are all designed to empower you to become a better higher ed professional. But RFI is far more than just a podcast network.

[00:50:57] RFI is where higher ed comes to learn new marketing [00:51:00] skills, discover new products and services, and find their next job. We're a growing learning community of 4,000 members, and we love to welcome you into the fold. You can access our free blog articles, newsletters, e-courses, and more. Or purchase our master course on how to market a university with Terry flannery@enrolli.org.

[00:51:19] We look forward to meeting you soon and welcoming you into the community. Again, you can subscribe for free@enroll.org.