Understanding the Role of Marketing from a President’s Perspective

Full Transcript

Enrollify_ConfessionsofaHigherEdCMO_Audio_Ep25S3E2_ThomChesney_Version1

[00:00:00] Jaime Hunt: Hi. I'm a higher ed CMO and I have a confession to make. I am absolutely fan curling about my guest this week. It is Tom Chesney, who's the former president of Clark University. If you aren't following him on social media, you need to be, I love his authenticity and how he talks about his leadership style.

[00:00:19] I was really thrilled that he agreed to come on the show and talk about what presidents want, their CMOs and their marketing teams to know about the job and about what they're looking for. So I hope you enjoyed this episode with Tom, and again, please go follow him. He is amazing.

[00:00:52] Welcome to Confessions of a Higher Ed cmo, the podcast design for Higher Education marketers. I'm your host, Jamie Hunt, and I am [00:01:00] so excited to have this opportunity to share insights and inspiration with Confessions of a Higher Ed cmo. I'm designing a different kind of podcasting experience. With each episode, I'll be bringing in a guest for a deep dive into the challenges.

[00:01:14] Enjoys we all face in higher education marketing. After each episode, you can join the conversation on Twitter by using the hashtag higher ed cmo. I would love to see this become like a book club, but for a podcast. And be sure to follow me on Twitter at at Jamie Hunt i m C, that's j A i m E H U N T I M C for more opportunities to connect.

[00:01:44] I am absolutely thrilled to have with me today, Tom Chesney, who is the former president of Clark University. Hey Tom, how are 

[00:01:51] Thom Chesney: you? I am doing great 

[00:01:53] Jaime Hunt: today. Well, I am so thrilled to have you on the show to talk a little bit about, you know, being a president and [00:02:00] marketing and communications in that space.

[00:02:01] But first, can you tell us a little bit about your higher ed journey? It's a little bit of 

[00:02:05] Thom Chesney: a circuitous one. I have not been off a college campus. Since I graduated from undergraduate school in 1988 from Washington University in St. Louis, I worked for a year for Macy's department stores in their management training program.

[00:02:21] And the, uh, 90 hour week I had during Christmas working in the women's accessories department, Iry handbags and so forth, made me fer that deferred graduate study that I had coming at me. So I. Yeah, wouldn't, wouldn't I do it? You know, just going in at seven in the morning, didn't do it moment for sure. 11 o'clock at night or something like that.

[00:02:43] All for the good cause of, you know, department store retail. Um, So I went to Mankato State University in, in Minnesota, our shared home state. Um, and then I went to Florida State, uh, after that for my doctorate. I did those both in, uh, creative writing and, [00:03:00] and literature. My undergraduate degree is in Spanish, which living 20 years in Texas, which I'll share a tiny bit about.

[00:03:05] I was coming very handy because I get to speak Spanish all the, all the time. So I took kind of that traditional route. Um, Went out to Whitman College in Wallow Wall, Washington. Met my wife at the new faculty dinner. She was not my wife yet, but that accelerated pretty quickly for us. We went to East Tennessee State University as faculty members there.

[00:03:23] Then Texas Wesleyan University in Fort Worth. Um, and then had our first child and kind of looked at each other and said, how are we gonna juggle and do all this stuff? And the university was great and flexible and all that, but we, um, Decided I would look into the administrative kind of role and that Then I went to, uh, Pennsylvania to, uh, Pennsylvania College of Technology and for a year there.

[00:03:43] And then we went back to Texas and I was there for a long run as a dean, a vice president of Academic Affairs and provost at, uh, Colin College, Colin County Community College District. Then I shifted and became, uh, a, um, Associate provost at the University of Texas at Dallas while they were arising [00:04:00] R one University.

[00:04:01] And that really built up some skillsets I had in institutional research and assessment, so forth. And then I had my first presidency at Brookhaven College in Dallas, just a little ways away from there for eight years before I went to Clark for the last, uh, three and a half years. So Wow. That's my story and I'm sticking to it and I can't believe it's been as many years as it's been.

[00:04:21] Jaime Hunt: That is, um, a lot of states covered, a lot of ground covered in your career. And a lot of 

[00:04:26] Thom Chesney: institutional types. Favorite state? Ooh, favorite state. Yeah. Um, well, I'm, I'm super partial to my, my home state where I was born and, and returned twice at different times. I love Minnesota. Um, I love the lakes. The, you know, the, the nature I grew up.

[00:04:42] I spent my summers on my grandparents' farm. Uh, I was told it was summer vacation, actually. It was what we now call work. Um, But a great appreciation for the work of farmer, farmers, rural communities and so forth. Um, so I always love coming home to the, the Midwest. And I [00:05:00] think also part my biology is not cut out for Florida in Texas, the heat and so forth.

[00:05:04] So I'm, I'm one of those people who's always wearing shorts all the time. I'm the person who gets looked at in the grocery store, like, it's like 40 degrees outside. And you're wearing shorts? Yeah, cuz I run warm.

[00:05:18] Jaime Hunt: You and my mom both. I'm like, it's 70 degrees and it's time to put a sweater on. Uh, I had to leave the Midwest for that reason, and I, my two years heading back to Ohio was like, Ooh, this isn't, this isn't the right fit for me. I'm, I'm ready to go back 

[00:05:33] Thom Chesney: south and I'm married to a native Texan. So we get into those thermostat, they, they're not battles, they're just adjustments.

[00:05:39] Jaime Hunt: I like it. I, I'm, I'm with somebody who runs cold, so we're, we're a good even match. There you go. Good for you. Of course, we're not here to, we're not here to talk about, you know, our spouses, uh, sleeping temperature preferences. Um, but although I'm sure our listeners are really excited about that. But I did wanna talk to you because, you know, you're, you're a college [00:06:00] president.

[00:06:00] You, you have been for a long time, and I think that's one of the like. Mysteries for a lot of people who haven't yet attained like a CMO or a C-Suite type title is how do you work with the college president? And so I'd love to pick your brain on how you view that relationship between the president and the university's chief communications and marketing 

[00:06:20] Thom Chesney: officer.

[00:06:20] Yeah, I, you know, I think it's one of the most important relationships you're gonna find on any kind of higher education, you know, campus. Um, now truth be told, I didn't get there right away. I learned kind of by the school of hard knocks on some of that, that the phrase that I use today pretty irregularly and, and borrow, uh, from, from Hamilton, the, uh, your, your markon team, your leadership team, and sometimes it's two individuals.

[00:06:45] Sometimes it's that cmo, whoever that might be, has to be in the room where it happens because in any given moment at the planning stage for something in the midst of the work in progress or getting ready to launch or undo, or the things that [00:07:00] come to us as surprises, If they're not connected to the, the president cabinet leadership team, if they don't have that pulse on the, on the university, um, their, their, they're yards behind.

[00:07:12] There's steps behind what they can do to help the institution be successful and whatever the situation is, be, um, be successful as well, have the kind of outcomes that you desire. And I kind of stumbled into that and early in my first presidency and then just shortened that learning curve and made it happen when I went into my second.

[00:07:31] Jaime Hunt: I imagine for some presidents, I think that like the Covid pandemic was the first time that they realized. How valuable the Markham voice is in the room. But for you, if that, you know, that happened before you were at Clark, was there an incident or an issue that kind of raised that, um, that level of intentionality in bringing the CMO into the room?

[00:07:53] Thom Chesney: Yeah, AB absolutely. So it was early when I was in Texas, when I was at Brookhaven, uh, which is the Dallas County Community College [00:08:00] system. So that's, One of my other trademarks, I bounced around two and four year public and private, and I was doing what, you know, classic pres, you know, first year presidential kind of stuff, going and doing some listening sessions, uh, you know, sitting with a faculty group and staff and, um, just creating those spaces.

[00:08:14] Um, I, I. Love to be accessible and love to be that, that active listener and, and, and gather in and get to know the people of the institution. Right? And at one of them, um, somewhere along the lines as I was asked, you know, I was peppering these employees with questions, um, and I'm new to the role, never had, you know, president behind my name.

[00:08:32] And I said, you know, um, I've got a curiosity question. How is it that you, you know, do this? Or why is it you do, you're doing this right now? And I don't remember the question and I don't remember the answer. But I remember my chief marketing officer, my CMO Meredith, coming to me afterwards in my office and saying, you've got it, you, you've, you, you have it.

[00:08:52] And I said, what is it? And she said, from here on out, when you go into different spaces, one-on-one small group, you do these listening sessions, whatever it [00:09:00] might be, lead with curiosity. Let the people know you're asking the question of why or how out of a, as a question of curiosity, and I have locked onto that.

[00:09:10] If she'd not been in that space, if she'd already been in, in one of those audiences, I don't know that anyone would ever, ever have said it. You know, you, you, you need those, you know, one of the traits of Good, great Sams is I think those truth tellers. Somebody who will come and say to the president, you gotta phrase that differently, or, oh, You, you hit on something we should use that you should think about how you can carry that forward.

[00:09:30] So that was a really important moment for me. And you would find in talking to people I work with today, external, internal, whatever the case may be, a lot of them would say that Tom comes, you know, into that, those, those with those leads, with those curiosity questions. And it's so different than, you know, think about that difference.

[00:09:46] Why do you do this versus, I'm curious about why you do this or how you do this. Two very different questions and I only recognize that because of my cmo. 

[00:09:55] Jaime Hunt: That is fantastic. I, I love that feedback that you got. [00:10:00] And as you think about, you know, going forward and, and the next presidency and future presidencies, what kind of skillsets are you looking for in A C M O to get somebody who can bring those things to your 

[00:10:11] Thom Chesney: attention?

[00:10:12] Yeah, it's, it's those very things that willingness to come forward and, um, be hurt. Be confident, be outspoken, you know, come forward and say, and, and, and own that chief communications officer, chief marketing officer. You know, it's right there in the title. Own it. Live it, bring it forward. I, I think there can be some benefit in having, um, some experience that goes is outside of higher ed, for example.

[00:10:36] I even think my retail management experience is really helpful in some of my people's situations that I work with as a, as a, as a present, or as as I did as a faculty member or administrator of other types. But, um, Yeah, I think, you know, C CMOs who have, you know, bring that confidence, you know, know they have the expertise.

[00:10:53] I mean, the work that they do is among the most, you know, adaptive and flexible and [00:11:00] constantly evolving of work. So they've gotta bring that to the four four. Leadership team members who are not experts, who, you know, rarely do they come through that pathway. I hope more of them, you know, will and can and do.

[00:11:13] Um, but it's, it's being able to, you know, speak with that perspective that is uniquely theirs and say, here's how this could play out. If we say that, if we write that, if we send that, if we wait, if we go too fast and say in that moment when they're in that room. Right. Um, I, I agree. All right. Here, here's what I think.

[00:11:32] Or let's try something in a, in a, in a different way. I think that is so critically important. Um, and then also, you know, um, knowing that they go into those other spaces and carry that with them wherever they go. So, on the one hand, a president who's a strong, you know, sponsor, advocate and says, I want you to listen to what's being, you know, what's she's saying over here, right?

[00:11:53] President's out of the room. That voice loses no weight, no authenticity, no value. Because of that, that absence, no, it's [00:12:00] carried forward across. So that's a little bit on the role of the, the, the president to do that as well, is to say what my CMO says, you know, goes, if that makes sense. As, as, as well. Um, that's how close that relationship needs to be is, is as well.

[00:12:13] And I think another quality is to be a little bit like a, um, Kind of a chief of staff or a, you know, a consultant, a counselor in that way as well. The number of times that I have, uh, hopefully respectfully using, using the time well bounced ideas. What if we tried this? What if we said this? What do you think about this R run thoughts, you know, um, uh, you know, about a, a town hall meeting and how I'm gonna proceed with that.

[00:12:40] Or how we're, I'm, I'm thinking of re, you know, as a writer, I'm, I'm a challenging president to work with sometimes, cuz I think I have some of the Mark hub skillsets, right? They're, they're overlapping, but they're not exactly the same. But to have someone who will sit, who will, will just say, I like this one.

[00:12:54] I don't like this one. I don't think this will fly. I want you to consider audience. Here's why we wouldn't, you know, do this. [00:13:00] Uh oh. It's just so invaluable. And I, and it allows me to learn from them and all at the same times. It builds my confidence in the work that they do for, um, us and the institution.

[00:13:12] Jaime Hunt: Hey all. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed cmo. I wanna take a moment to thank my friends at mindpower who are making season two of this volfi podcast. Possible. Mindpower is a full service marketing and branding firm celebrating nearly 30 years of needle moving, thought-provoking, research, fueled creative, and strategy.

[00:13:33] Fine power is woman founded and owned, W B E N C, certified nationally recognized. And serves the social sector, higher education, healthcare, nonprofits, and more. The mind power team is made up of strategists, storytellers, and experienced creators from market research to brand campaigns, to recruitment to fundraising.

[00:13:52] The agency exists to empower clients, amplify brands, and help institutions find a strategic way forward. You can [00:14:00] learn more about their work in the world by heading on over to Mind Power, Inc. That's M I N D P O W E R I N c.com, and be sure to tell the crew that Jamie sent you their way. I think there's really a special relationship between CMOs, CCOs, and presidents.

[00:14:18] And I think about my time at Winston-Salem State working for Elwood Robinson, and he did exactly that. He would just pop in my office and bounce things off me that weren't even necessarily related to communications, but he just wanted to get, you know, an outside perspective or. You know, he respected the way I thought about things and, and bouncing those off him.

[00:14:38] And it almost becomes where you're able to kind of anticipate what he. Will want and need and then it gets where you can write in his voice and, and he would say, you sound more likely me than I sound like me. And it just was such a, a, a magical relationship, um, between the two. And I, I imagine, and I've been a fan girl of yours cuz throughout the [00:15:00] pandemic, you, you were tweeting stuff that was like, this guy gets it.

[00:15:03] Like, I totally get it. And, but is it sad to like, walk away from those relationships when you're a president to be like, Yeah, I'm, I'm moving into something different and I'm leaving behind this, these folks that I, you know, Had this close interaction with for 

[00:15:20] Thom Chesney: years. Yeah. There is, there, there is. It is bittersweet in some ways.

[00:15:25] Um, but, you know, one of those things that, that I, I like to, uh, think about is, um, how do you, how do you come into a place and how you leave it, for example, and what do you see going on? And I think of the, the team at, at Clark University, for example, um, and how, uh, their classic case of through their own.

[00:15:45] You know, unified desire to develop, to invest in each other and, and themselves to completely redefine, uh, the, the roles of that, that team. Um, and just raise the bar for what they did. I mean, [00:16:00] in the community, three and a half years after I, I, I started, they were already rocking it in so many different ways.

[00:16:05] But to have people come up to, you know, me as the figurehead, you know, the face of the institution and say, You know that billboard that you have on such and such? Oh my gosh. It almost, it stopped me down to see, you know, the spectrum of students and it looked like ages and diversity and so forth. And that's one Clark one community, and they built that campaign.

[00:16:25] They, they built that from the ground up. They designed it. I saw, you know, charettes and ideas and so forth, but that came from them just raising up and saying, we've got this, we we're able to do this kind of thing. It looks like the shops that you spend seven digits on to do Super Bowl ads or something shows how little I, I, I know about these things, but it's just that good.

[00:16:46] And I love knowing who is doing that. And I love calling them them out on things. I love texting after a news segment, you know, aired on, um, Local Iowa television or something and say, oh, that was so good, that line that you, you had me, me get in, or somebody else did, [00:17:00] or however it was done. Or when, um, Gail was doing, serving as, you know, the, you know, the, the voice of the institution for something that happened on, on campus.

[00:17:08] And I'll just say, just, just, just hang them and say, just nailed it. Those confidence boosters that work both ways that are reciprocal. Um, yeah, you, you miss all that. But then because of the age we live in, right? You see how it perpetuates, right? So I, you know, I follow every institution I've worked at on social media or where I went for, uh, for, uh, my undergraduate and graduate years.

[00:17:28] I just love seeing, you know, what's generated, what kind of content is out there, what, what, what, what they're doing. And, um, it's fun just to sort of have that pulse and see those good things that are still happening and how that's happening and be able to, every once in a while, just send that direct message that said, love this.

[00:17:42] Saw this, you know, Keep doing it. You know, I, I think there's value in that too. 

[00:17:48] Jaime Hunt: I bet, I bet that means a lot to people. I, I, I certainly think that that would be something that I would definitely appreciate. Um, and I think, I think about you as a leader and, you know, obviously I only know [00:18:00] you from what I follow on social media.

[00:18:01] We have, we've never worked together, but I get the sense that you're somebody that would, you know, make sure that your CMO has the resources. Um, Available to them to be able to do, to execute what needs to be done. And I'm curious about how you kind of prioritize those initiatives, budget, staff and technology versus all of the other things that come up in higher education that need funding, resources, budget, all of that.

[00:18:29] Yeah, that's a, 

[00:18:30] Thom Chesney: a super question, a great space to go into. Um, because I, for, for better or worse, uh, least, Half the institutions I've been a part of at some point have faced some kind of a budget rescission or shift, or things are flat or, or, or de decreasing or not growing in the way that you would like to.

[00:18:46] And then so then navigating that and making those decisions. Um, and again, that learning curve, you know, through those different positions that I had of discovering that, that, you know, uh, among the areas, um, that you least want to disinvest from [00:19:00] or cut is that marketing. You know, that communications area, because there sits the brand, there, sits the storytelling, there sits those tentacles that go into advancement where you're doing that fundraising to try and maybe close that gap if there is one.

[00:19:13] Or in, you know, in, in increase in a, in a way for a capital campaign or something like that. So it's a really tough area to say, you know, as it happened once in in Texas, um, the legislature was gonna. Yeah, the, the budget as proposed was gonna be seven to 10% less. Just go across the board and say, Hey, everybody, give me a 10% less budget.

[00:19:30] There's some areas where it's, it's a little bit harder to do that. I, you know, uh, sooner, you know, I cut my own travel out before I would cut the professional development for marketing, for example, because they're building new tools. They're, they're, they're bringing on new technology and just to say, well, let, let, let's stop that.

[00:19:45] That's stopping. And then also by default, sort of moving backwards while stopped, if that makes sense. I know it's a paradox as others continue to advance forward. Um, so to, yeah, I, I think that's, I think that's really important part of that equation [00:20:00] too, is again, being in those budgetary and strategic conversations with the Maron team.

[00:20:05] Mm-hmm. And, uh, where, you know, say things are gonna be kind of flat. Is to have those really thoughtful conversations about, okay, we know we need to move in another space. Like maybe we're doing some kind of targeted marketing geofencing on, on, you know, certain newspapers in, in an area within a certain radius of the institution where we have a high yield of students and it's gonna cost this if we're gonna have to move it from somewhere else, let's let data inform that.

[00:20:28] Let's let some decisions inform that. What, what is it that we can give up? And I've learned over the years, not categorically, But a lot of, you know, marketing teams are, you know, so driven, so caring about their work, their projects and whatever. They're so used to adding on and adding a new tool to the toolkit, finding a new audience, doing something like that is to say it's okay to give up, can be a challenge.

[00:20:52] So part that's part of that process as well. And, uh, I remember at one institution saying, you make the most beautiful [00:21:00] flyers for student groups and clubs and so forth, but isn't, aren't there? Some tools that would allow the clubs and organizations to do that. Yeah. But style guide this and style guide that.

[00:21:10] It's like, and do they really need to do that? You know? But it was, it was a much more complex con conversation that, but out of it came this freeing up to say, our shop's gonna stop doing that. Empower someone else to be able to do that. You know, the director of student life plus the, uh, director for intercultural, you know, en engagement programs.

[00:21:29] You get to do that now. And they took it and they ran with it and Markham gave them templates and that saved some money that then was channeled over here to do something really special in a, in a different way. Um, again, it means though you're back in that space, you're in those conversations where you get to kind of debate that back and forth and not just, um, dictate, but pose some.

[00:21:51] Some of those same hard questions they're posing to me, pose it to them. Why are you doing this? Out of curiosity, but also out of budget. Yeah. 

[00:21:57] Jaime Hunt: Yeah. I'm thinking about my team. [00:22:00] When I first got to Old Dominion, I went through like, what are your pain points? What are the things that you do that you feel like our huge time sucks with little return?

[00:22:09] And we made a list and I went to the president and I, one of the things was we send daily clips. These are all the clips that we've gotten in the last day and, and the president was like, I don't open those every day. I don't need to see those every day. Send me the big ones if it's like we just got on CNN or something.

[00:22:28] But otherwise, once a week is totally okay. So the, the team was, you know, toiling over something every single day that was neither wanted nor needed. Um, and find having a, a good enough relationship with the president to even just ask him. Do you want this? Is this something you want? And there's so many things I think that we do in in higher ed marketing that's like we're doing it because somebody 15 years ago, Wanted it done and not because there's strategic value to it.

[00:22:57] Oh, I 

[00:22:58] Thom Chesney: think that's so that, that is so spot on. I, [00:23:00] I, I, I love that we have that shared experience too. Something very similar. And I re remember, um, again, it's that learning curve from one place to the next, but, uh, coming into my, my, my second in, in Iowa, and it was about clips, it was about, you know, where are those hits and those, those searches you have set up, how are you doing that here?

[00:23:17] What does that look like? Well, we get, we get a feed every day and we package it and whatever. And I said, can I be added to the feed? And I've been there a month or something like that. Oh. But it's like inbox clutter. It's like, no, it's not inbox clutter. It's gonna come at like three 30 in the morning, like inside higher ed and all, all the other trades.

[00:23:32] Right. And with Scansion, I'm gonna roll through it. It's gonna take me outta the surprise loop. It's gonna be there that I haven't, you know, that I won't say I haven't seen, and you'll have to prepare any of it for me. That spawned an idea then of theirs to say, how about if we pull from that and we create a one one page news site of where Clark is in the news, in this in, in this case, and started pulling in social media feeds, news stories, and our own press releases, and became this place where one person can go.

[00:23:59] Well, guess what that [00:24:00] is then for the president? I mean, these things like turn one thing into the next right? Is it gave it, it took me out of my first six to nine months, you know, which brings us right into Covid in my case, of sending attachments and readings and here's what's happening at Clark to the board and opening my biweekly message to the board with, don't forget to check the link on all that's happening, you know?

[00:24:21] And maybe saying, make sure you read this one and this one. But, so the production costs for all of us change just by having good conversation just by calling out the pain points, right. Yeah, this is a time suck and it 

[00:24:34] Jaime Hunt: sucks. I, I had a friend who's gonna be starting a new job and she was asking me if I have any advice about, you know, leading a large team or leading a team or whatever, and she's, I told her my number one advice is if you wanna win over your team, ask what their pain points are and start solving some of them.

[00:24:51] Because they'll be like, wow, this thing I've hated doing for 15 years, I don't have to do it anymore cuz somebody dealt with it or found a more efficient way to do it. Or [00:25:00] you know, I found stuff that was like two presidents ago that president wanted something and we're still doing it. Assuming that the next guy and the next guy also wanted 

[00:25:09] Thom Chesney: the rituals that had 

[00:25:10] Jaime Hunt: carried forward.

[00:25:11] Exactly, exactly. So as a president, how do you address like the potential conflicts or competing priorities between different departments or stakeholders? Like the academic departments, you know, need X, Y, Z, but athletics also need, you know, attention. 

[00:25:27] Thom Chesney: Yeah, that's a tough balancing act and um, again, it's one that I've grown into over time.

[00:25:33] And you had. Adapt institutions as as, as well. You know, you said athletics, for example, N J C A, a institution with four athletic teams versus, you know, over 14 sports at, at, at Clark. The two, two significant athletic, uh, differences from a, uh, two presidencies. Um, a common thread though is being that convener.

[00:25:54] Again, back to how do you bring, how do you bring those people together? So, um, you [00:26:00] know, so, you know, athletics and academics, you know, having the provost and the, the athletic director, you know, um, vice president of Acade, uh, academic Student Affairs, you know, together in the space and being talked about what's being, you know, prioritization, what's in the strategic plan, and then how does the strategic marketing communication plan dovetail into that.

[00:26:16] And of course, enrollment is, is, is a, is a key part of that as well. But being in that same space and hearing from each other, It's so different than if it's carve outs. All right. The next marketing meeting is, is the athletics one, and not seeing how athletics fi, you know, ties keenly into enrollment and ties into, uh, re retention and other initiatives, bringing them into that same space.

[00:26:38] Mm-hmm. Not for every meeting, but for strategic communications marketing. Sure. Um, And, and certainly, you know, as president, that brings a certain amount of, um, you know, certainly that support and again, advocacy for the marketing team, talking about how, you know, limited resources and so forth. But it also helps the other audiences say academic affairs and athletics in, in this [00:27:00] case, for example, to, um, understand that they too need to make that case for those re those finite resources.

[00:27:07] And then how are they able to support each other. You know, in that And are there priority programs that sometimes where some of those monies are gonna shift from one to the other and we'll know when that's gonna happen. And that's happening in year two. That's happening in year, year three. You're bringing on lacrosse team for the very first time.

[00:27:23] Um, There's gonna be some ramp up startup costs. Clark started football, you know, when I was there in my very first year. And just, you know, the, the marketing plan just for that first season was huge. The investment in that, very significant recurring costs. Some of those dropped off from a launch versus ongoing.

[00:27:40] Well, just even talking about things like that in, in a similar way that makes sense then to, hey, we're revamping the MBA program and certain elements of the nurse practitioner doctorate program. Again, having the athletic director and hearing that side. Having the provost here from the other side and working together in that space for prioritization and strategy, I think makes a [00:28:00] world of difference, at the very least, is creating that respect that you hope for, that you've got these.

[00:28:05] Competing interests that ultimately really do fit into the overall, you know, vision and direction that the university is going. Uh, and you'll understand that better if you're hearing each other and giving space to be heard to each other in those conversations. This is 

[00:28:19] Jaime Hunt: a, a podcast about marketing, but boy do I wanna dig into how you started a football team and then went into a pandemic.

[00:28:26] Like how, how did, that was your first season, the pandemic year? 

[00:28:30] Thom Chesney: It. So it was the fall. It was fall of 2019. Played a whole season. Okay. Um, and then, uh, actually did play the following fall. We are in the, uh, uh, in the N AIA A and the Heart of America Athletic Conference. Uh, interesting study in and of itself for another time, was able to set up a set of protocols that allowed competition and fall in spring sports all the way through, and did a whole lot of good to keep a lot of those institutions whole, if you will.

[00:28:57] Yep. Yep. There was a challenge, but [00:29:00] again, a lot of people at the table. Yeah. A lot of perspectives getting to a lot of good answers and good outcomes. Yeah. 

[00:29:05] Jaime Hunt: I could also like pick your brain for hours about navigating as a president, the Covid 19 pandemic and how, how you balance all of that. But you know, that was, I, I was at, um, Winston-Salem State when, when the pandemic hit and you know, the kinds of decisions that we had to make with very little knowledge and insight into what was going on in the world.

[00:29:29] And in hindsight, maybe you would've done things differently, but it was hard and you probably, it, we benefited from having a cohesive leadership team. And I'm guessing it sounds like you might have been in that situation. 

[00:29:39] Thom Chesney: Yeah, I think it was probably. Um, the Venn diagrams for all institutions insected intersected pretty significantly, right?

[00:29:47] Um, when we went into it, um, at the very beginning, we said, we are going to make mistakes, but we're going to make them with the, the, the best information that we possibly have. I've gone back to and looked at the very first [00:30:00] post that we made on the, the Covid website, which is that kind of classic, Hey, we're monitoring this thing.

[00:30:06] And then it escalates from there into the shutdowns and the changes in pedagogies and all that stuff. Mm-hmm. Over the course of the better part of at least two years. Right. Protocols for returning to campus, all of that. So one of the things we said we're, we're never going to assume that we have, um, all the, all the right players, all the right information, whatever, but everyone in that space is, um, is going to be truly equal in terms of we, we've gotta hear from everybody.

[00:30:28] And so I convened a lot of those meetings. I was in those and. In every one of those, we went around and did a check-in, facilities, residence, life, acade, you know, all, all of those. And it was one of those a few weeks in, for example, where somebody calls out, we're going fully online and there's no one from it on this call.

[00:30:47] You know, it's like, boom, got it. Who are we inviting? Who's the right person? And that expanded into, hey, everyone in this group is also empowered to bring someone in. So athletic director saying today, you'll see with me [00:31:00] director of, you know, the director of athletic training. Who's having to think about all these protocols for the care of our student athlete.

[00:31:05] You know, and you can think of example after example where it was, if we're really gonna appeal this and figure it out, it's not enough to have the, the director level. I need Some others or, or, or the dean. Certainly not the cabinet doing that. Um, You know, it's probably six or eight months into it we discovered this phrase that we ended up closing every meeting with.

[00:31:24] And that was, um, you know, see you whenever the next meeting is. Sometimes it's the next morning, whatever it was. But until then, stay in each other's business for all the right reasons. And I would carry that and say, you can lay that across post pandemic. So many ways of solving problems together or looking at things together is to get into each other's business, to understand it, to hear it, to contribute to it.

[00:31:47] And that's all the right reasons. That's very different than micromanaging or telling somebody, you know, you know, you, you're gonna explain it for them and you're not the expert, but you're gonna explain it for them. You like all that kind of stuff that goes on. Um, if you create a culture for, for that, that openness to be [00:32:00] able to do that.

[00:32:01] Then you don't have to have org charts to say how we're gonna redesign, you know, who hierarchies and all that. You just create a culture for, um, improved communication just across, up and down. You name it. 

[00:32:13] Jaime Hunt: I love that. That really segues nicely into my next question, which is how did the past three years and, and the time in the pandemic impact how you communicated with stakeholders?

[00:32:25] I, I can't imagine that it didn't impact how you communicate with stakeholders just given the magnitude of what needed to be communicated. No, 

[00:32:32] Thom Chesney: absolutely. Um, in so many different, different ways. So all of those things that feel so comfortable, everybody has their comfort zone. Right. Uh, I think, you know, shifted.

[00:32:42] I loved the, you know, all college day. All college meeting where you come together in a, in a, a, you know, concert hall or, you know, uh, some space like that. And you gather and you can walk the stage and roll through the Prezi or whatever it, it, it, it might be, and take q and a or whatever. And it's just the ambience of the room and doing that [00:33:00] is, is so much fun.

[00:33:00] And I remember, you know, I, I go from doing that like in my second week or third week in starting, uh, my work at Clark and then having it go away to where it's how many, you know, have everybody turn off their cameras because there's a few hundred of us trying to do the all college day address, state of the university.

[00:33:16] The following August, and it's like, oh, it just like hits you right here, or we're recording it, play it on your own time. So some of the changes were like that and felt more artificial. Others were, again, back to being able to sit around, you know, with each other and think through, um, what are, what are the things that are in jeopardy.

[00:33:35] Um, I remember, I, I, I'll never remember whose idea. Yes. Doesn't matter whose idea it is, if you, you deliver on it in, in a really successful way sometimes, right? You don't care who gets the credit. We just know that it worked. Uh, someone, someone said, you know, um, we we're very student-centered. This is a time to become parent centered as well.

[00:33:52] Parents need to know even more than they do. Um, and I re uh, I took all of our first year [00:34:00] students and I wrote cards to all of the parents. Uh, you know, thank you for entrusting your student to us for this semester. We're doing, you know, everything we can for them, and we thank you for believing in us to do that.

[00:34:16] Signed and sent one after another of those holiday, you know, that, that bridge between, you know, the fall and the spring semester and that was someone else's idea as I, I recall it. But it also made me sit down and think about every one of those at a small institution. You know, a lot of those students by name cuz I've had those freshman dinners and you know, you're involved and engaged on campus and all, all that kind of stuff.

[00:34:37] So that completely changed something. It was like, you know, that, um, I was used to doing that for donors and alumni. There were, there were vast databases saying you signed these, these get printed, all that kind of stuff. No one had ever said, and we need you to sit down and write to the parents from your heart.

[00:34:53] Because that could be the difference maker for someone deciding to come back into another semester of this and [00:35:00] then doing calls during the summer, individual calls, teams doing that, or, or, um, vice president of, of student life initiated that informed those and we're calling down the line to prevent summer melt.

[00:35:10] Right. Just, just saying, Hey, we're just checking in from Clark. How are you doing? How's your summer been so forth. And it's like, what? You're calling as a human, this isn't a robo call or a text. It's like, Nope. You know, it's kind of, we're small and we're able, and all also, it's really authentic for us to do that kind of thing.

[00:35:25] And we heard loads on that from students and, and, and parents, a, a alike. So the difference is then you can carry a number of those things forward. Well, why wouldn't the college president in a position where you can, it's manageable, right? Thank the parents. So why wouldn't you do that in the best of times, right?

[00:35:46] Because that's a big deal. I dropped my daughter off this fall, so really it hits home a little more closely now for me. But, um, so yeah, the ways we did it, the frequency with which we did it, How we went about doing it, I think, um, mattered. You know, the, [00:36:00] you know, the open door to the, the office, for example, where people pop by and say, God a minute and so forth, kind of goes away during the, the worst of covid.

[00:36:06] Right. Well then how do you allow direct messaging. You know, outlook messenger or something like that for someone to pop up and say, do you have a minute? Or just a, somebody opens a, opens a teams window or whatever, and said, can you answer a question for me? I just need, you know, that, that kind of thing.

[00:36:20] All those things change. And then probably the number, you know, one of the, I would say it's number one, but also way up at the top with that was, um, and is to this day, that whole phrase, how are you? This completely changed forever for, for a very, very long time. Right? I never take it for granted in the hallway or on a call like this, whatever it might be, when someone says, how are you?

[00:36:40] Um, it, it's not, it's not an invitation to unpack everything, but it should be one now where we can, we should anticipate and expect. It may not be, I'm fine because we're not all fine, and for again, a better part of two years. What was fine? It changed day by day, you know, not being sick or, you know, being able to work at all, or you know, what, [00:37:00] whatever, not having lost a loved one or something like that.

[00:37:01] So creating that space where it's like, you know what I'm asking, you know, in saying that I, I really wanna know how you're doing. Um, how, how are you managing this? What's, what's the, what's the mood? How's your team doing? I. As well when you're, when you're sitting as a cabinet or something like that. I think that that made a difference.

[00:37:14] I'm hoping those are also carry forwards. You know, tho we, when we ask that question from time to time, we take a moment for so to be a point of reflection and thoughtful, you know, uh, questioning that comes with more than one or two words and jumping into agenda item number one. 

[00:37:30] Jaime Hunt: Yeah. I think, I hope and, and.

[00:37:33] I really, really sincerely hope that we see each other as human beings even more than we did prior to the pandemic. Cuz I think we got to see behind the curtains and what people's personal lives look like. By virtue of we're all working from home. You see what's happening behind you see the kids climbing the walls who are supposed to be homeschooling you.

[00:37:54] You see, you know, the cats and the dogs and the hobbies and it's like suddenly [00:38:00] everybody, um, It stopped being abstractly human and started being per, you know, perfectly human, I guess, an actual human being to people. And maybe that makes me sound weird that I didn't realize people were humans before that.

[00:38:16] But you didn't have the same glimpse into people's personal lives, um, until you saw them. In their home situation and understanding, you know, I had, I'm sure you had this too, people working for me that have three kids homeschooling behind them, and how in the world those folks manage all of that on top of their jobs and the stress of where your groceries gonna be and all of that.

[00:38:40] It's just bonkers. 

[00:38:41] Thom Chesney: You've gotta give, allow people, give them grace and space and, and all of that. But I, I remember there were times where my preference really was okay. Let's not do blurred backgrounds. Let's not do nicely designed graphics or whatever of our institution. Right. Let's show it, you know, if you're okay doing that and, and, and [00:39:00] just be all right with.

[00:39:01] Wow. It looks like they didn't put the coffee pot away, or that plant is dying or whatever. It's because there might have been a po a nice little point of departure there. Or when, uh, one of my two, uh, marketing comms directors, um, her, uh, daughter Hayden was home for a while and, you know, and, and Hayden just, just jumped on a call or whatever and says, hi Tom.

[00:39:22] I know they call you Tom, your first name Tom, and so forth. And I just said, Hayden. How are you doing? What are you looking forward to? Well, I wanna do gymnastics and whatever. And at first, I think her mom, who I'd worked with by then, you know, a couple of years or whatever, I wouldn't say she was mortified, but it was like surprise.

[00:39:36] And then it was like, yeah, this is just, this is just part of what it is and, and where we are no different than my case. The dogs that would go bur berserk because the horn honked outside and I didn't have time to mute, whatever it might be. We all had those realities of sharing a little more of a glimpse into them, um, or even sometimes just saying, Um, as I, I more than once, you know, happened to me where someone said, I'm [00:40:00] camera off today, because I'm just off.

[00:40:02] I, I'm, I'm feeling off. Do you still wanna have this call? Yeah. I just want you to know that I'm, I'm not to be seen today. I'm only to be heard. I was like, it's okay. Again, humanizing these already humans, right further. 

[00:40:15] Jaime Hunt: I, I sometimes just get so tired of looking at myself when I'm in like zoom meetings all day, like by the four o'clock meeting.

[00:40:22] I'm like, my camera's off. I can't look at my face anymore. It's just, it's not here for me. But I do think, you know, the, the, in some ways, like the crossing campus for meetings that maybe are just. You know, not necessarily necessary to be in person, so you can have a quick zoom call or where you might have had a phone call, but now you're having a zoom where you can see each other while you're talking.

[00:40:45] Those kinds of things. I think there's definitely some good that has come out of that. And I love the, the story you told about the reaching out to parents and, and thinking about them and thanking them for entrusting us. And they're doing that, whether we're in a pandemic or not a, [00:41:00] as you know, um, You know, dropping your daughter off at school, you're sort of trusting that all the, the grownups there will, will help her get through that whole process.

[00:41:09] Right. Where is she going to school? 

[00:41:10] Thom Chesney: She's at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Yeah. So far away from her. Yeah. Kind of back home for her because she did most of her K through 12. There, but, but not a school that she originally knew, uh, or was familiar with, but one that found her and then she found them and all that, all that perfect chemistry happened.

[00:41:27] I just returned from parents or family weekend and it was fantastic. Do you get 

[00:41:31] Jaime Hunt: any special treatment as a, a college president, having your daughter at, at school? Did they sort of tell you stuff, you know, give you an inside scoop? You know, 

[00:41:41] Thom Chesney: when, when, that's a good question. When we went down for move-in, Um, uh, Lori Trombley, their, their president, of course, was greeting all the students and whatever there, and I'm, I'm, we're sitting at the, the new student at brunch or something, and, um, my daughter said, you know, uh, You can eat the brunch, you can participate and [00:42:00] everything, but you have no business whatsoever talking to the, the president, I said, okay, well, she, she spoke and she was so wonderful.

[00:42:07] Um, and she's, she's been, you know, president a couple of times or herself. I knew of her. I did not know her. And she and the board shared some some lovely things to the parents and the students and it was really good motivation. And I was like, I was already so comfortable going there, right? We, we wouldn't have been sitting there in the a hundred and some degree heat.

[00:42:21] And, but we got all the way through this. And my daughter turns at me and says, all right, you know what? I think it's okay if you go say hello. So I'm in my t-shirt and shorts for parent move-in. Right? And, and she in the board chair just said, we were wondering if you might say hello. You know, it's like, it's that decorum kind of thing.

[00:42:37] Uh, there's sort of an unwritten code I think is, and, and I heard it from someone. I've sort of adopted it. I love to go and visit other campuses and some so forth, but when I'm going somewhere, I'll often just drop a note and say, not expecting a reply. I'm coming to visit your campus next week for fun. I know, I know you have a new science building, or you know, you've done something.

[00:42:52] Different with what, whatever. And I'm curious by now, you can tell I'm curious, right? All the way through this call. Um, but, [00:43:00] and, and, and a lot of times I'll hear back, Hey, when do you wanna pop by? I think part of that is because it is one of those positions that is, it's the one thing that's held up from anybody who gave me advice.

[00:43:11] Like back when I was an assistant dean, Hey, are you gonna be on this progression become president? One thing that is absolutely held is the loneliness. Of, of the college presidency. Sometimes it's with your thoughts, sometimes you're on your own. Um, it's, it's, and, and I don't mean that to be melodramatic in any, in any way, but you are, you are it, you do give up some of the comradery with not the collegiality, but just you, even if you carry your faculty status or something like that.

[00:43:41] And one person who described it to me, what really well, and I, and I, and I use this from time to time, is it's not you the human again. But it's the title that follows the name of you, the Human. When the president comes into the room, the environment changes and it can change in a lot of different ways.

[00:43:59] It can be, [00:44:00] oh, you know, she's here now, we're gonna do the senior toast, and everyone's excited about that or not, you know, we're, we're gonna do the awards present, you know, and it could also be. He's here and it's the budget cut conversation, and now the rubber's gonna hit the road because they said when they got here, we're gonna make those decision.

[00:44:17] You know, so there's those, those different things. Um, so when we come together, like with the Council of Independent Colleges or whatever, the presidents come for that annual, you know, meeting in January. Uh, you know, even people who have no hair like me, you let your hair down because this, your empathy tanks are full.

[00:44:33] There is so much more in common than is uncommon amongst presence of every institution. 100%. We hold all the stories and confidences and things like that, you know, the, the ethical part of it. But, um, it's that, that part of the job is, is something you, you don't embrace it. You just have to know that it, that it's gonna be there.

[00:44:51] So, you know, my case, having a. Fantastic wife of 25 years and four dogs that become like a blanket when I get home and, and, and, and [00:45:00] kids and others and so forth make, make those, those loneliness moments. Um, a lot less I impactful, but it's definitely there. And um, you know, just real quick, back to the PA pandemic coming together as presidents even more closely made such a difference, um, The half a dozen plus in the area where, uh, Clark was, for example, we talked and met regularly and then started having regular meals and things like that.

 

[00:45:25] Even as the, the pandemic unwound because we learned that there was this shared strength. And even, even though we couldn't all do necessarily the same things because the nature of our institutions, we couldn't inform each other's decision making and, and really have a community of, of presidents in the same way.

[00:45:39] We had a community of colleges. 

[00:45:41] Jaime Hunt: I imagine that's a, a transition, making that transition from, you know, a faculty member to a leadership role where you start to become more the title than the person. That's like, gotta, there's gotta be a mental shift there that you have to make. I I, you notice as a bystander, when the president walks in the room, everybody sits up a little bit [00:46:00] straighter.

[00:46:00] Or maybe they're may be slightly less candid Sure. Than they had been before the president walked in the room and, and all of that, you know. It's, it's, I imagine it's a difficult job. Which kind of segues me nicely into my next question, which is what do you wish that your CMO and marketing staff understood about the job of a president?

[00:46:20] For one, 

[00:46:21] Thom Chesney: I hope and wish they absolutely know that president, you know, not without exception, but so many we're not marketing and communications experts. In fact, we need that help. We need that support. Uh, even someone with the, the, the so-called degrees, professional experience, still whole different ball of wax and how that plays out.

[00:46:40] So as, as comfortable as I am writing or whatever, you know, um, I don't know how things are gonna play out. So back to that, adjusting for audiences or length or type or, you know, the, you know, or how we're going to use something when we're going to use it and, and all of that. So one of those things is, um, And I think a lot of people will say, possibly when the president's not there, that presidents don't know very much anyway.

[00:46:58] They don't know anything. Right. [00:47:00] But there's a, there's a deep reality in that, in, in many cases when it comes to really under things like managing a brand or, or talking about things that are truly about those who live and breathe. Um, that, you know, the marketing, the public relations, that, that, that piece of it, the governmental affairs piece, you know, the.

[00:47:16] You know, presidents go off to the capitol often, or they go into these different spaces, non neo, non-profits and, and with officials or whatever. But what do they often go with? And that is that really good information about what a difference their institution, their students, their faculty, their research that's happening There is, is is to the world, to the community, to the region.

[00:47:35] And where's that coming from? A really talented markcom team that's pulling that in again, because of those racial relationships. Regular conversations with the faculty. Knowing, knowing what's going on in your, in, in your research arm, really having that pulse of of, of the students and having those things ready to go so that when you turn to them, you know, president turns to them.

[00:47:52] It's like, I'm going here to meet with these people to do this. Boom, let's like pull this. It's almost like, you know, here's the s smartest board from which to choose for the [00:48:00] really perfect meal with Senator so-and-so. Who's on the appropriations committee? Perfect. Right. So I go back to your, your, your, your question.

[00:48:09] It's that we, you know, um, don't know as much as, as, as some might think. Also, a lot of presidents, I don't think are, are, again, sometimes it's maybe a stereotype of the role willing to ask. Um, but that being educated, getting a chance to learn from someone, I think is, is, uh, so important. And having somebody be able to, you know, run and, and, and try that by you, um, you know, doing.

[00:48:33] You know, for a video, you know, holiday card, Christmas card, in case of Clark, a Catholic institution and having the, um, you know, the Jenny, the videographer who's got the, you know, you know, tell a, um, screen up for me, you know, the iPad up with the script and so forth. And just being able to say, I didn't like that.

[00:48:52] You know, your, your, your, your face was kind of frowny or whatever. It didn't seem to have the, the same energy you have when you're downstairs talking to students. If you're talking to students through the [00:49:00] screen, Tom, can you bring that same kind of energy to it? You know, that's someone in a, in a, in a mid-level position who's gonna tell the president hasn't a cut in it.

[00:49:10] You gotta do better than that. Students are largely comfortable doing that. You know, the CMO is in a position and there's a little different way than a governing board to give feedback and a evaluative, formative helpful feedback and education to a president. But some others on the team are, are not. My CFO doesn't want me to go get a CPA and an MBA behind my name and, and, and get into the books in that way.

[00:49:33] They wanted me to understand and so forth and work that way. But the CMO wants me to shine because they know there's, there's something writing on that sometimes, and I think that's really important. So I loved getting feedback. It helps. I got a lot of feedback and writing workshops over the years, right?

[00:49:50] Who used to taking the hits? Like, whoa, nobody liked the story. Tear it up, throw it away. Right? It's like you get, you know, you get comfortable with that and realize that's [00:50:00] part of the learning and that's part of the improvement. And I think that's really, I, um, IM important. And I would say one other thing real short is, um, we want them to take risks.

[00:50:09] We want them to fail fast and fail forward, and put something out there. And then also just give us, you know, the, the nitty gritty on what was it and, and, and, and why didn't it work and how do you go forward? No different than inventing. You know, in, in, in other ways, the same thing when, you know, enrollment management, oh, we tried to do a different kind of tour this year or whatever, and it didn't happen.

[00:50:28] You know, we tried to market in this space, using it in this way, and we got nothing. Okay, good. Because I like to be able to answer that question too. What's not working, Tom? Well, we tried this. Yeah. I'm not gonna do it again. So that's 

[00:50:39] Jaime Hunt: good too. Yeah, that's, I always think about the, the president as being, you're one of the big faces of the brand and part of our job as CMOs.

[00:50:48] Is to manage your brand too, right? Like cuz in some cases the president is incredibly visible on campus. Everybody knows who they are. I know at Miami and at Winston-Salem State, if I [00:51:00] walked across campus with the president, um, it was just this constant selfie, can I get a selfie with you, Mr. President?

[00:51:07] You know, the whole walk. And, and there it's your really public face for the brand and kind of keeping you in the forefront and shiny and, you know, In that space, I think is, is a big part of our jobs as, as higher ed CMOs. 

[00:51:23] Thom Chesney: It is a big one. It is, it is an important one. It seems, it seems a little bit like printing and printing sometimes, but it's true.

[00:51:29] And as people you know, know, and they, and they, they, they, they look for that and, um, I think that's, that's really important. And it goes right down to some cases saying, Hey, you're going to this, this thing this evening. And again, again, you know the audience, audience matters, right? You're going out to rural Iowa to, to meet with, you know, to a, a, uh, farm and they're gonna be union leaders there, manufacturers, and so forth.

[00:51:51] Don't labor over which of your 24 blue and gold ties you're gonna wear Tom, because that's, you're gonna be so out, you know, don't fake it. But you [00:52:00] worked on farms, you did things like that. You, you're, you're comfortable with that. Go and be comfortable in that space. And I just love that. I love the fact that somebody would say, this is what we're expecting in this versus this, you know, I love it.

[00:52:10] Go into the magic costume changing room and Superman. Thanks for times in the day if you need to. Yep, yep. 

[00:52:15] Jaime Hunt: Right. Well, I, I super appreciate your, your time, Tom. Is there anything else you would like to add, um, before we wrap up? 

[00:52:24] Thom Chesney: I, you know, the only thing I would um, add is that, you know, when you're. CMO and the CMO, president, you know, re relationship.

[00:52:32] One of my favorite questions to ask, um, in an interview process, or have asked of me in an interview process, uh, for, uh, hiring is to, uh, ask the hiring person. You know, what does success look like? And another way of phrasing that sometimes a little more specifically is saying, you know, mm-hmm. Um, what would you be talking about a year from now that would suggest that we hired the right person?

[00:52:53] Because here's what's happening. Well, here's what's, what's going on. Um, so mm-hmm. I would encourage that to [00:53:00] be a, a regular, you know, operational but not perfunctory question for presidents with their CMOs and CMOs with their president. You know, we're, we're, we're trying to raise awareness. Well, what does that look like?

[00:53:13] We're trying to bring in a, in a, in a, a more diverse, you know, you know, uh, incoming class, what does it look like? Mm-hmm. And not just the demographics of the class. What does it look like in terms of what it's going to take to take a structure that we have, the tools that we've been using? Is that going to be something that's different about that?

[00:53:29] So I think, you know, uh, that's, that's where I would, you know, leave, you know, my, my thoughts today is being in that position to ask, what does success look like in the moment? In the long working project, in the strategic priorities and and so forth. And if you can answer that and better yet, answer it together, probably gonna do all right as an institution and, and, uh, servant leaders alike.

[00:53:53] Jaime Hunt: I love that. I love that so much. I'm really encouraging listeners to follow Tom. Um, I [00:54:00] love how sort of candid and open you are on, on Twitter, especially with your life and uh, seeing your peaks of your dog and your morning coffee and all of that. Um, but Tom has a lot of great gems as well. So where can people find you if they wanna wanna follow you?

[00:54:15] Thom Chesney: My daughter says you're boring on Twitter cuz it's like a diary. Well, it's a diary of my professional life and, and, and, and family life. So it's Tom Chesney, just t h o m, uh, c h e s n e y. Uh, over on LinkedIn, I'm typically more along the professional line of, of, of thinking, looking into some of the key issues that are going on in the day following, posting some of those.

[00:54:35] Uh, I do some, you know, articles and chronicling of my own over there. It's kind of usually, typically tied to higher education, uh, leadership. Instagram is mostly pure fun. And that's where you find craft beer. Tom, I'm still, I'm Tom Chesney at all of those. I like to be really transparent. It's so easy being, it's, it's much easier to be one person than try to be multiple people.

[00:54:53] So I just went with the easy route, right? But if you find me over on Instagram, it's the, it's the lightheart. It's way more dogs, way more food, [00:55:00] and way more, uh, craft beer. In, in, in moderation. I, I, I am a micro brewery, nano brewery nerd. Yeah. I just wanna be clear about that. 

[00:55:11] Jaime Hunt: All good, right? You don't have 40 dogs and dms 

[00:55:13] Thom Chesney: are always open as we like to say.

[00:55:16] And 

[00:55:17] Jaime Hunt: I, I just appreciate you so much. I appreciate, um, you know, what you add to the higher ed space and, um, I think any C C M O would be lucky to work for and with you. And so I, I just wanna, I, I'm fangirling cuz I just think you're amazing. So thank you so much for coming on the show. Listeners, as always, you can follow me on Twitter at Jamie Hunt, i m c.

[00:55:37] That's j a i m e. Thank you, mom and dad, H U N T I M C. And on LinkedIn, Jamie Hunt, same spelling. And as always, please use the hashtag higher ed c m o and we can continue the conversation, uh, into the future. And until time, let's go bust some silos.[00:56:00] 

[00:56:04] Thom Chesney: Hey y'all. Zach here from Enroll five. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O with Jamie Hunt. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and hit that follow and subscribe button below. Furthermore, if you've got just two minutes to spare, we would greatly appreciate you leading a rating and a review of this show on Apple Podcasts.

[00:56:23] Our podcast network is growing by the month, and we've got a plethora of marketing admissions and higher ed technology shows that are jam-packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks. That are all designed to empower you to become a better higher ed professional. But RFI is far more than just a podcast network.

[00:56:40] RFI is where higher ed comes to learn new marketing skills, discover new products and services, and find their next job. We're a growing learning community of 4,000 members, and we love to welcome you into the fold. You can access our free blog articles, newsletters, e-courses, and more. Or purchase our master course on how to market a university with Terry [00:57:00] flannery@enroll.org.

[00:57:02] We look forward to meeting you soon and welcoming you into the community. Again, you can subscribe for free@enroll.org.