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Podcasts Confessions of a Higher Ed CMO Episode 28
Unleashing the Power of Stories for Epic Content Marketing
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Full Transcript
[00:00:00] Jaime Hunt: Hi, I'm a higher ed CMO and I have a confession to make. I got into my higher ed career after starting my career as a journalist. And when you're a journalist, you're not necessarily thinking about the different personas of the your audience because your audience is generally. The general public and shifting that mentality to a more audience focused, persona-based approach to creating content is something that you kind of have to work on.
[00:00:25] Um, if you come out of journalism, this episode will benefit anyone who comes from a journalism background, PR background, marketing. Anybody who is interested in learning how to create content that really helps you achieve your institution's goals. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Brian Piper, who is the author of Epic Content Marketing, the second edition.[00:01:00]
[00:01:05] Welcome to Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O, the podcast design for Higher Education marketers. I'm your host, Jamie Hunt, and I am so excited to have this opportunity to share insights and inspiration with Confessions of a Higher Ed cmo. I'm designing a different kind of podcasting experience. With each episode, I'll be bringing in a guest for a deep dive into the challenges and joys we all face in higher education marketing.
[00:01:31] After each episode, you can join the conversation on Twitter by using the hashtag higher ed C M O. I would love to see this become like a book club, but for a podcast. And be sure to follow me on Twitter at at Jamie Hunt i m c, that's J A i m E H U N T I M C for more opportunities to connect.
[00:01:57] I am so happy to be here with Brian Piper, [00:02:00] who is the director of Content Strategy and Assessment at the University of Rochester, which are two interesting things combined together. So I'm, I kind of wanna ask you some questions about that too, but, hi Brian. How are you?
[00:02:12] Brian Piper: Fantastic. Jamie, thank you so much for having me on.
[00:02:14] I really enjoy the, the show and all the guests and conversations that you bring to us, so well, thank
[00:02:19] Jaime Hunt: you. I'm, I'm so happy to have you on. Brian is also the co-author for the second edition of Epic Content Marketing, so we're gonna be talking a lot about content marketing today. But first I want, um, Brian to kind of tell us a little bit about your higher ed
[00:02:35] Brian Piper: journey.
[00:02:36] So I started at the University of Rochester. A little more than five years ago, I work in the Central Communications department and originally I was hired to come in and just look at our content data and provide insights into what was working and what wasn't. And I pretty quickly saw that our, uh, new [00:03:00] center content, which should have been really a high driver of organic traffic, was only getting about 20% of its traffic from search.
[00:03:08] So, You know, we started a, a SEO project within the first year. We doubled our organic traffic and so then they wanted me to start giving SEO presentations and keyword workshops across the institution. So that went very well. And then everyone started, you know, having a better understanding of how to do keyword optimizations.
[00:03:30] And then I started presenting at, uh, industry conferences, higher ed conferences and content marketing conferences. And since now, recently with the, the Google Analytics for Migration, we have kind of become a, you know, I guess a center of excellence to be able to advise other groups on, um, you know, best practices and what might be a better, uh, analytics set up so that we can track things across the [00:04:00] entire institution and.
[00:04:01] Just trying to help everyone, uh, do better. Uh, so it's been a, it's been a wonderful journey. I came from. A defense contracting company where no one ever talked about what they were working on or shared any ideas. So higher ed is just such a, you know, it's like a breath of fresh air. Cause everyone is just so willing to share and talk about what's working and what's not working.
[00:04:25] Jaime Hunt: Nobody's saying things like, if I tell you I have to kill you or anything like that. Exactly. Exactly. That's the fa my favorite part about, about higher ed. I am super intrigued by, Director of content strategy and assessment. I love the combination of those two things. How do you, was that what your title was originally when you started there?
[00:04:45] Or how did you, how's that shape up? What does that look like on a day-to-day basis?
[00:04:50] Brian Piper: Yeah, so I mean, it's, it's the content strategy tied directly into the insights. So the insights all come from, you know, qualitative and quantitative [00:05:00] data and strategy. Everything's informed by strategy. It all goes back to that.
[00:05:04] It all goes back to who you're talking to, who your audience is. So it's really all about, you know, looking at the big picture and trying to really see, you know, the, the forest for the trees, because, We can make all sorts of decisions about things to change in our content and what to try and new tactics.
[00:05:23] But if it's not all rooted in your final goal or your, you know, final strategic objective, then it doesn't really matter. Mm-hmm. Why you're creating that content or who you're putting it out to, if it's not helping your users help you reach your goals. I
[00:05:39] Jaime Hunt: absolutely love that. And I think about, you know, Having an end goal is sometimes seems like a totally foreign concept in higher ed.
[00:05:47] It's like we just produce content cuz somebody asked us to, or fill in the blank. Did you have to do any sort of cultural shift at your institution to start thinking about it in a more strategic way or were they already on that path? [00:06:00]
[00:06:00] Brian Piper: So a lot of the leadership within my department knew that we were creating a lot of content that didn't necessarily have the impact that we wanted it to have, but, They had difficulty telling deans and researchers and faculty that we can't make a news story out of this piece of content.
[00:06:19] So that was part of what they wanted me to do, was really to look at the data and figure out, well, these stories just don't work. These shouldn't be new center stories. These should be, you know, a social post or just a department mention in a newsletter, or something like that. So I think that was part of the shift, was getting people to recognize that.
[00:06:38] Everything isn't a story. Uh, some things are, are just, you know, different news that you released to the very specific audience that it matters to.
[00:06:48] Jaime Hunt: Yeah, that sounds, did you have to do a lot of education across campus on that, or were people just hungry for that shift?
[00:06:54] Brian Piper: I think a lot of people were, were hungry for that and I, you know, I, I see that in a lot [00:07:00] of brands, a lot of institutions that I, I go and, and work with or talk to is that, They're so focused on producing so much content because they know they have to get all this out to all these audiences, and everybody should know this, but until you really start looking at what strategy you are supporting with this and what users you're helping with this content, if you can't connect those two things, then it's probably not something you should be spending your time on.
[00:07:27] Jaime Hunt: That makes total sense. It makes total sense. And in my almost 19 years of higher ed, I feel like every time I get to an institution, it's always this like we're just churning stuff out and maybe it's getting 30 views or something like that. It's. It's just not working.
[00:07:44] Brian Piper: Yeah. And until you really start looking at the data around what types of content they are, and you look at how much time it takes to produce those four, those 30 views or fewer, yeah.
[00:07:55] It's really disheartening to the content creators. But then, yeah, when they can create a story that gets [00:08:00] 20,000 views in a month, that you know, really makes 'em inspired to keep doing more of that kind of work.
[00:08:06] Jaime Hunt: Yeah, absolutely. I imagine it's, um, a morale boost to actually have your content read or feud or whatever, you know, cuz content's not just writing, right?
[00:08:14] Like, that's not all we're talking about today. Um, so tell me a little bit about the book. What inspired you or how did the book sort of come about? I know it's the second edition, so tell me a little bit about that.
[00:08:26] Brian Piper: So, before I got into content marketing, I was a website developer and not a very. Talented one or a good one?
[00:08:34] Not very happy. It wasn't fulfilling to, to create websites. Um, but, and I worked with some very talented developers and so most of the time, if. There was a, a Lola in the robotic repetitious work that I could crank out. They would say, well, why don't you just go and do the, that web positioning stuff that, you know, you have to play with the content to make it rank on the search engine.
[00:08:58] So that was back in [00:09:00] 96, I started doing that. So I got very good at doing s e o and then in 2014 I read the first edition of Epic Content Marketing and it just opened up my eyes. I was, I. Amazed at the idea that you could tell stories and convince people to trust you and to listen to your opinion. And so, you know, I just immediately got into that.
[00:09:24] I, I went right down to the vice president of marketing at the company that I was at, and I said, you need to hire me to do your digital marketing, because content marketing wasn't a thing in. 2014, and she did, she gave me a chance, um, within the first year we doubled our organic traffic to our website. Um, and so then that led to, you know, eventually led to me getting the job at the University of Rochester.
[00:09:52] And within the first, uh, two weeks that I started, I convinced them to send me to Content Marketing World, which was [00:10:00] Joe Pei's, um, event. And he was the one that wrote the first edition of the book. So I tracked him down at the event. I took a selfie with him. I thanked him for writing the book and changing my career path.
[00:10:13] And then I did the same thing every year for, uh, the next five years. And then I started speaking at the conference and presenting there. And so then Joe and I got closer and every time I'd talk to him, I'd be like, so Joe, when are you gonna do a second edition of Epic? Because. You know, it still has Google Plus in it.
[00:10:33] It's really good content still, but it's dated. Um, and so then a couple weeks after, uh, content Marketing World 2021, we were in a Slack, um, book club, chat room. There were probably five people in there and Joe was in there talking about his last second edition of Content Inc. And I asked him again, I said, when are you gonna do a second edition of Epic?
[00:10:56] You know, I, I think, you know, I'm looking forward to you doing that. And he said, co-author it with me and, [00:11:00] and we'll do it. So I said, absolutely I will. So we, we jumped on that journey and got to work together with him on, on figuring out what to update and what had changed in 10 years, and got to talk to all sorts of incredible influencers and content marketers about what they were doing.
[00:11:17] And it was just such a change in. You know, the structure of the book from it was first written when content marketing was just an idea and there weren't really very many good use cases. And now in the second edition there were so many just fantastic examples of this, you know, strategy just working so well for, for so many different brands and, and content creators.
[00:11:43] Jaime Hunt: So you really played the long game. You, you, you started out. I, I hope listeners hear this and think like, shoot your shot. Go up to that person at the conference. Make an introduction. Make a connection, because look at how this turned out for you. This is fantastic.
[00:11:58] Brian Piper: Yeah, absolutely. It's all about, you know, [00:12:00] finding those opportunities and looking for those open doors.
[00:12:05] Jaime Hunt: Hey all. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O. I wanna take a moment to thank my friends at mindpower who are making season two of this volfi podcast. Possible. Mindpower is a full service marketing and branding firm celebrating nearly 30 years of needle moving, thought provoking, research, fueled creative, and strategy.
[00:12:26] Fine power is woman founded and owned, W B E N C, certified nationally recognized. And serves the social sector, higher education, healthcare, nonprofits, and more. The mind power team is made up of strategists, storytellers, and experienced creators from market research to brand campaigns, to recruitment to fundraising.
[00:12:45] The agency exists to empower clients, amplify brands, and help institutions find a strategic way forward. You can learn more about their work in the world by heading on over to Mind Power, Inc. That's M I N D P O W E R I N [00:13:00] c.com. And be sure to tell the crew that Jamie sent you their way. And that's incredible.
[00:13:05] And the book is incredible. There is so much great stuff in here. There's everything from, you know, building out personas to how do you assess all of this to, you know, Everything in between, all of that, all of the channels, all of this. This is a ton of work. And I, you told me before we started recording that you did this in just like a matter of a couple of months.
[00:13:25] I can't even imagine the heavy lift that was.
[00:13:29] Brian Piper: Yeah, it was, it was a ton of work. I mean, and when we first started, you know, when we first started talking about doing it, we were like, well, you know, we're just gonna have to update some of the, the stats and, you know, get some new use cases. And then when we actually started the writing, we're like, well, It's been 10 years, let's just throw it all away and start from scratch.
[00:13:48] Oh my gosh. And then, so we started coming, coming up with a, with a outline and a framework. And as we were doing that, we kept looking back at the book and saying, oh, well this, you know, this is still very valid, very relevant, [00:14:00] all the strategy stuff, all the, you know, the, the examples that we had in there, um, all still worked.
[00:14:06] The content marketing strategy, you needed all of those things. Um, but. You know, so we, we condense the first book down into about a third of what the second edition is, and then we added in all sorts of new information, you know, updated everything about the way that they're building personas. We talked to Adele Revelle at Buyer Persona Institute and.
[00:14:29] She's like, yeah, in 10 years we have completely changed the way that we create personas and our strategies around those. And then we added in all sorts of information about, you know, using all the data and content optimization. And then the last third of the book was all new stuff. It was, you know, AI and web three and community and super fans.
[00:14:51] So it was just fascinating get to getting to talk to all these people who are doing all these things so well.
[00:14:57] Jaime Hunt: That, that's incredible. I, the book isn't [00:15:00] geared necessarily toward higher education, but I think there's a ton of stuff in here, and I think in higher ed we often don't learn enough from non higher ed.
[00:15:11] Things, right? Like we're often very insular only going to higher ed focused conferences, reading higher ed focused books. But I think that, that, this is an example of something where I, I hope that listeners will read it and I'm, I'm not getting paid to do this podcast episode, I should say. It sounds like a, a, a heavy ad, but it is not.
[00:15:30] Um, but I think it's really helpful to learn from business leaders in other industries and to stay sharp in our craft.
[00:15:38] Brian Piper: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean the, the marketing philosophy and strategies are all the same. It's just sometimes, you know, our, our audiences are much more varied than you get in a lot of B2B or B2C companies.
[00:15:52] But, you know, a lot of the tactics are the same. A lot of the implementations are the sames and certainly, you know, the lessons learned and being able to look at the data and figure out [00:16:00] what's working and what's not working, um, very different and working with different. Uh, departments and schools and groups across the institution.
[00:16:10] You find some groups that are very focused on delivering on goals and they have very, you know, set goals. Um, advancement, admissions. They, you know, know what their targets are. But then there are a lot of other groups who don't really have those specific goals, and it's just awareness and, you know, much kind of squishier goals that most marketing agencies or brands would not.
[00:16:36] Like that because they, they want to have something that they know they're, they're meeting this particular goal. So, so
[00:16:42] Jaime Hunt: in the book you write about the six principles of Epic Content Marketing. What are those principles?
[00:16:49] Brian Piper: So these are things that you need to do with your content that are gonna make it valuable and useful, and that's really what makes.
[00:16:59] You know, [00:17:00] just content creation different from content marketing and in content marketing. You're trying to give your audience useful, valuable information that's going to help them solve a problem with the end goal of eventually having them take some action that will help you reach your goals. So, you know, enrolling or donating or, you know, uh, Getting, you know, coming in to, to work for you or, uh, all those different things that we're trying to get them to do.
[00:17:30] So you have to think about kind of these six principles set you up to do that. And the first one is you have to fill a need. So you know, your content has to answer some unmet need or question that your customer has, has to be, uh, useful, like, more useful than just what you offer as a product or a service.
[00:17:49] And. You're giving that away to them for free. So that's helping build that trust that you want to create with them. Um, and then the second thing is to be [00:18:00] consistent. So, Creating some sort of content that you can put out on a regular basis. Now, it doesn't have to be all your content doesn't have to be delivered on a regular basis, but if you say you're going to deliver a daily newsletter or a weekly newsletter, your users will come to expect that and they'll expect it to be on time.
[00:18:23] Um, and, you know, whatever you commit to, you should deliver because as soon as you miss a day, Then you're gonna start wearing away at that trust that, you know, people are starting to build with you. Um, and then, you know, one of the big ones is just to be human, which as higher ed institutions sometimes doesn't come as easily to us.
[00:18:46] It's, it's, uh, sometimes people wanna like take a step back and not add too much, you know, authentic voice or personal voice into the content. But that's what. People are looking to connect with you. They're looking for that [00:19:00] brand voice. They're looking to, um, you know, find out how they fit into your environment.
[00:19:07] And then having a point of view is, is another very important principle because I mean, otherwise, if you don't have some sort of point of view, if you don't take a stand on issues that are important to you, you are going to alienate people within your group. Um, and, and they're not going to see you as. Uh, you know, as experts or as caring about these, these issues that we should all care about.
[00:19:35] So I think it's important that you, you know, you come across as human. Mm-hmm. Um, and then I think one of the biggest ones that, that especially brands have a big problem with and a lot of higher ed institutions have difficulty with, is avoiding that sales speak and talking about yourself. Hmm. Cause the more you talk about yourself, The less people will listen to you mm-hmm.[00:20:00]
[00:20:00] And value your content cuz no one really cares about how great you are or, uh, you know, all the different options you offer or all the different programs you have. They want you to help them solve their problems. Mm-hmm. They want you to be able to answer their questions about what they're interested in.
[00:20:20] So, um, you know, And it's also talking in the language of your users. If you're talking to graduate students or faculty, you could use, you know, more jargon and more intensive, uh, higher level, um, language. But if you are talking with potential undergraduate students, you have to talk in a language that they can easily understand.
[00:20:46] And then I, uh, the last one is just to be, you know, strive to be the best of breed. Mm-hmm. You know, your, your goal for your content is to eventually be the best in your niche. You know, whatever you're [00:21:00] distributing, any content you're distributing, you should try to make that as valuable and as relevant to your customers as you can so that you're delivering that value to them.
[00:21:12] How does that
[00:21:13] Jaime Hunt: look at University of
[00:21:15] Brian Piper: Rochester? I think a lot of it is, um, It has to do with being very intentional about who we are creating our content for. So when I first started, um, let's say a, a news story about some research that was just, you know, that just, uh, happened. It just had some great findings.
[00:21:38] The um, content officer would come and say, you know, here's a great story we want to do. I was like, that's fantastic. It's a great piece of story. It's a great piece of content. Who's the audience for it? And they would say, everyone, everyone is the audience. Everyone should know this. And I'd be like, okay, well everyone's not an audience.
[00:21:57] Um, so we would, we'd go [00:22:00] through an exercise where you would have to pick one audience who by taking some action after reading that content would have the biggest impact on helping us meet one of our goals. Hmm. So it's really trying to make that connection with your content about what's the point of this piece of content?
[00:22:19] What are you trying to get the user to do? Now, every user that reads it obviously is not gonna do it. Every user that reads it is not gonna be your target audience. But you wanna know, okay, my target audience for this piece of content is graduate students. So when I'm writing this piece of content, I want to think about Hassan, who is this graduate student who we just interviewed, and I am talking to them about whatever this issue is.
[00:22:43] I want to structure my language. So it is a, a, a conversation between, you know, me and them so that. It comes across very natural. Um, it comes across as not sales, uh, focused, and we're really [00:23:00] looking to try to answer their questions or help them understand this, you know, new finding and how it will impact them.
[00:23:07] So it goes beyond just, uh, Here's this great new research finding that we came up with. It's like, here's how it can impact you. Mm-hmm. Here's how you could get involved in projects like this. Here are the opportunities that you know are, are that exist here that you could get involved with. So
[00:23:25] Jaime Hunt: I think this is gonna tie back to my confession a little bit, which is that when I first got into public relations, marketing, higher education, um, I was coming from a journalism background.
[00:23:37] And as a journalist, your job is to tell the story for everyone, right? Especially if you work at a, a. You know, a newspaper, right? Um, or any sort of non niche, uh, media outlet. And I know because I have done a lot of hiring for content creators that a lot of us come from a journalism background, and our natural [00:24:00] instinct is to write for.
[00:24:02] Every person. And I think that one of the, the things that we have to reframe our thinking around and listening to you talk about this and reading the book is thinking about that specific audience member or that specific audience that we're trying to reach so that we're telling a story in a way that reaches them.
[00:24:21] And for those of us who came from a journalism background, that's definitely a shift. Um, or at least it was, you know, I was last a journalist in. I'm going to mumble here. 2001 ish, I think was, no, 2003 I think is when I left journalism. Um, and
[00:24:38] Brian Piper: so when you were
[00:24:38] Jaime Hunt: 16? Yeah, I was, I was 12. Come on man. Um, But you know, it's been a long time, so maybe it's changed in journalism cuz I know like all the pressures and blah blah, blah, fill in the blank.
[00:24:51] But, but that's a big shift for, for people who were creating content, for a general audience to start thinking about it from a marketing lens. And have you [00:25:00] encountered that with people that are maybe coming from that same background?
[00:25:03] Brian Piper: Absolutely. And I think a lot of it goes back to, um, the editors that you work with who can.
[00:25:11] Help craft the idea behind the piece. And as they're reading the drafts, they can say, well, how, how does this really help your user? How does this really help the target persona that we are writing to in this piece? So I think, you know, just kind of easing that out of the writer over time, consistently peace after peace.
[00:25:34] You know, it took, I'd say it took probably a good. Six months or so before we didn't have to do much. Uh, you know, they would come to us and they would know mm-hmm. Who the audience was for this piece. They're like, oh, this is a more technical piece of research. This is definitely a graduate student, you know, focused piece.
[00:25:51] Or this is, you know, for other potential researchers that we wanna get in here, or faculty that we wanna bring in. Or, this is a great piece for [00:26:00] undergraduates. And I think it's, you know, just. Changed the way that they were, were thinking about the content that they were working on.
[00:26:07] Jaime Hunt: Well, and I'm a big proponent too, of you can repurpose content for different audiences on different channels.
[00:26:15] So you can do your interviews and your, um, gather all of the stuff for your storytelling, right? But then when you get into the different spaces or with the different audiences, then you can shape that content for those different audiences. So a research piece that's maybe geared toward like a scientific.
[00:26:32] Audience, like maybe you're trying to attract faculty in a specific discipline or something, you know, that can be really sort of high-minded, um, a higher reading level. But when you're, you can reuse that same content to attract undergraduate students and their families, but it has to be reworked. It can't just be read this like, you know, Really high level.
[00:26:55] Right, right. Um, research here, Mr. [00:27:00] 16 year old, like Right, exactly. Understand this in the same way. Yeah. And repurposing that across channels too, like something for Twitter is gonna be totally different than a podcast, for example.
[00:27:11] Brian Piper: That's exactly right. Absolutely. And, and really writing. For each of the audiences and for each of those platforms, you can adjust, you know, repurpose any content for any of those as long as that's the right target audience for that content.
[00:27:25] Jaime Hunt: So from your perspective, what are the most important elements of a successful content marketing strategy?
[00:27:34] Brian Piper: Yeah, I think it all, it all goes back to really focusing on that audience first. I mean, it's all audience and strategy, right? We say it all the time, you know, your, your customers don't care about you.
[00:27:45] They care about their problems, and, and so you have to intentionally make the connection between solving the audience's problems. And helping you meet your strategic goals. And it's, you know, it's the tactics [00:28:00] that you choose and the tactics that you employ to connect those two, to connect your audience with your completion of your goals.
[00:28:08] Um, that really determines what data you need to be looking at and what metrics you need to be measuring to see if you are making progress towards that goal. And if, I mean, a lot of times we'll try something and it doesn't work, but if we weren't looking at the data, we would know that it's not working and that we should stop doing that.
[00:28:24] So,
[00:28:25] Jaime Hunt: And looking at the data, I, I imagine you're using a lot of different tools to do that.
[00:28:30] Brian Piper: Yeah. Lots of tools across lots of different platforms, but a lot of times, you know, the. The best tools are oftentimes the ones that are provided with the channel. So our social data, we pull that. We don't have any, we, well, we have a few third party programs that we use, but primarily we'll pull those directly from the platform.
[00:28:52] But we take them out of the platform and we put them into, uh, you know, Google Sheets or Excel so that we can then [00:29:00] manipulate the data, track it over time, figure out what. You know, metrics are going to work best to help us figure out, um, what's working and what's not. And we'll oftentimes, like we pull out all our social data and then we tag it by, uh, you know, which strategic, uh, initiative it's supporting, which audience it's focused on.
[00:29:21] And then we look at all of those across the channels to see which channel's working best for which strategy for which audience. So it's, it's very helpful, but. If you were just using the, you know, native Twitter analytics, you wouldn't, you wouldn't be able to get that. Mm-hmm Mm.
[00:29:37] Jaime Hunt: What role do you see storytelling playing in content marketing, and how can universities effectively use storytelling to connect with their various audiences?
[00:29:47] Brian Piper: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think storytelling is critical for connecting with people. We love hearing stories. We love being pulled into. Stories, feeling like we're part of it. [00:30:00] And I think especially in the university, you know, any, any higher ed environment, there are so many stories across all the different audiences.
[00:30:10] Um, and I think we have so many opportunities to get, you know, students to tell their stories, faculty to tell their stories and really humanize them so that, you know, people reading that content can really connect with them and, and understand how. That, that, you know, that could be them. So I, yeah, I think storytelling's a, a fantastic way to communicate.
[00:30:33] Jaime Hunt: I give a workshop on building integrated marketing communications plans, and one of the things I talk about is that is storytelling is how we remember information. It's how we, um, connect with information. You know, back before there was the written word, that's how people would remember. The things they needed to, to survive really.
[00:30:55] And then you had traveling Bards who were coming and, and sharing [00:31:00] information through storytelling. And it's one of the most basic things to being a human, I think. And I think sometimes we forget about that in our writing of press releases about, you know, X person was hired and this is their background.
[00:31:14] Right. You know, a lot of times we have to do those. Nobody reads those. Right,
[00:31:18] Brian Piper: right. I know. Yeah, maybe we can just get AI to do those pieces of content so we can focus that be lovely. Focus on the stories.
[00:31:25] Jaime Hunt: Yeah. I did have chat, G P T write me a bio and it had everything wrong, so it works. Yeah, it
[00:31:31] Brian Piper: doesn't do well.
[00:31:31] Bios and eulogies. It doesn't do.
[00:31:36] Jaime Hunt: That's interesting. I hope I don't have a use for that anytime soon to try that. But that, that is interesting. One of the things that really jumped out at me in the book was, You talked about the engagement cycle. Um, can you talk to me a little bit about that and how you see that playing out in higher education marketing?
[00:31:53] Brian Piper: Yeah, so I mean, traditionally in, you know, b2b, B2C in organization, the engagement cycle [00:32:00] is where, um, sales intersects with the customer journey. So it's really figuring out, you know, that that's how you build your funnel. So you're building your funnel with content marketing. Now in higher ed, we have so many different points of engagement with so many different audiences.
[00:32:19] So not only do you have to be thoughtful about, you know, what strategy each piece of content supports, and what audience, each piece of content support, but you have to think about where that content fits in your engagement cycle. So if you are just doing, you know, high level top of funnel, bringing people in, You wanna make sure that, you know, any calls to action that you have on that part, particular piece of content aren't trying to push someone down to the end of the funnel.
[00:32:47] You know? Mm-hmm. Don't have a here requesting more information about our chemistry program when they're just reading a research story about a new chem chemistry finding, um, you know, point them to something else that's, [00:33:00] you know, also at the top of the funnel or, you know, give 'em a couple pieces of content there before you try to push them down into that next level.
[00:33:07] So really just. Thinking about where all these pieces of content should fit in the user journey. And once you assign a piece of content to a spot within the journey, then you need to start looking at it to make sure that it's actually delivering on that. Maybe it shouldn't be there, maybe it should be changed a little bit, or molded a little bit, made a little more technical, dropped further down into the funnel.
[00:33:29] Um, so yeah, just trying to figure out, you know, not only where you're going and who's gonna get you there. But what the steps are along the way, what are the road marks, you know, on, on the journey?
[00:33:43] Jaime Hunt: We've talked a little bit about that journey and talked about solving our audiences' problems, and that just kind of reminded me about, you know, at a previous institution we wrote some guides for like, what, how to prepare for your a college tour, what are some of the things to look out for, um, [00:34:00] how to do your, fill out your fafsa, how to approach X, Y, or Z.
[00:34:04] And then it was this sort of like sneaky little, like, we wanna drive people to our website and find, to find us useful, right? Because. Families all over are looking for that type of information. We might as well be driving them to us rather than, you know, some non-high ed or some other institution. Um, but I, I like the idea of like also some more subtle things like the, the.
[00:34:28] Chemistry story that you were mentioning earlier. Um, do you see like both of those as having value in the engagement cycle and, and how, where is it just different phases of that cycle?
[00:34:41] Brian Piper: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, that co I mean, that is exactly what content marketing is, is you're just trying to answer the question that those users have.
[00:34:50] They may not even be looking at your institution, but. You can be a valuable resource and eventually if they come there enough and get enough answers from you, they're gonna start thinking, oh, [00:35:00] well I can trust this institution and they're helping me, and they're not trying to just sell me and push me and recruit me.
[00:35:09] Maybe I should take a look at 'em. And, you know, a lot of our content, especially our, our new center content, a lot of it just links to other stories because we want them to consume more content. We want them to come in and say, oh wow, look, they do all sorts of research there. And then eventually on, on a handful of those pages, we do direct them down to the particular, you know, academic unit or, you know, over two admissions, just so they can look around at the different programs that we offer.
[00:35:38] But I think it's, you know, being thoughtful about where you are putting those calls to action and offering, you know, sometimes we'll have two or three calls to action scattered within the piece of content. Four different levels of the funnel. Some people have been back here three or four times to get questions answered or to learn different things.
[00:35:56] So I think, you know, just figuring out [00:36:00] how to direct the users in multiple different ways and knowing that you're talking to several different audiences and trying to give all of them something that's helpful. But your, your primary audience always comes first, and then you can address the other audiences further down.
[00:36:17] Jaime Hunt: When you're thinking about personas are, how are you approaching developing those? I, I'm so interested in personas, so I love using personas, but I'd love to get your take on, on how you tackle that.
[00:36:30] Brian Piper: Well, it was interesting when we, when we talked to Adele, she was, she was saying that they have really changed the way that they do personas.
[00:36:37] So they, they still enjoy having like all the demographics data, and. She said that the most important thing is really understanding the decision making process. Mm-hmm. And what those decision criteria are, and understanding what problems those users are facing and trying to solve. So that's where we start, whenever we're, [00:37:00] you know, working on personas or, or discussing personas is what is gonna change this person's mind to engage them and to, you know, Get them to make a decision.
[00:37:15] Um, and so those are the things, those are the points that you try to hit and you try to work on, you know, the, the, the emotions that are involved and, you know, the benefits of making this decision, the, the repercussions if you don't make these decisions. So I think just having an awareness of those decision making criteria are.
[00:37:34] Are the most important piece. And then after that, then you can start thinking about, um, you know, personalizing the, the personas, giving them names and uh, talking about, you know, what kind of newsletters they read and things like that. Those are nice to haves and they give you a better sense of, um, you know, of who you're talking to.
[00:37:54] But I think, you know, some of the best kind of personas that are used [00:38:00] are, um, You know, when you're writing a an email to someone, you can start off with a student's name that you know, you know, personalizing it in a way that you actually have someone that you can connect to, you can envision. Um, I think that's one of the most effective ways to do it.
[00:38:22] Jaime Hunt: I'm thinking about, I had tasked someone at a previous institution with crafting. Some personas and doing some research and doing all of that, and they kind of came back with something that was super stereotypical, like they had this sort of, you know, Katrina is a Hispanic woman who's close to her fa and it was like all these tropes about, you know, a, a Latinx woman, right?
[00:38:46] And then they had like a, an African American male and it was just all these tropes about that. And then, you know, a white, basically like a white frat bro and all these sort of tropes about that. And it's like, I mean, [00:39:00] yes, there are people who would fall into some of those cuz, but. Like that's super stereotyping people, and it's not really talking about their pain points and the problems that we're trying to solve for them.
[00:39:12] It's more almost just creating this broad canvas of stereotypes about your students. And students aren't stereotypes, they're not tropes, they're individual people, but there can be some commonalities in what their pain points are.
[00:39:26] Brian Piper: Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, Uh, when Warren Buffet writes his shareholder letter every year, he starts off writing it to his sisters.
[00:39:35] Mm-hmm. Because that's the language that he wants to, to use. He wants to explain at a high level, kind of what happened throughout the year without going into a whole bunch of detail or going into every decision in the process, because he knows they don't wanna learn. Don't wanna know that. So having that real person and connecting with those real people.
[00:39:57] I think, and that's really one of the best things about [00:40:00] creating personas, is that to create a good persona, you have to talk to those people, to those decision makers, and that's where you can connect with them and say, now I know what your problems are and what your issues are and how I can help solve those.
[00:40:17] Um, and then you have a real person in your mind when you're writing that content. I love that. So I think that's the most, the most important thing.
[00:40:23] Jaime Hunt: I love that mental image of picturing somebody that you're writing for, because I think that keeps you honest. I mean, definitely. Yeah, I, I listened to the Smartless podcast with, um, will Arnette and Jason Bateman and Sean.
[00:40:38] I never remember his last name, but when they get to inside baseball on Hollywood stuff, they'll stop and say, Hey, Tracy. Which is one of their sisters. And like kind of explain what they mean by something like they have, they have a persona in their head of the average listener doesn't understand all the nuances of Hollywood.
[00:40:57] And so they'll pause and, and explain it to [00:41:00] quote unquote Tracy, um, who's just somebody who doesn't work in Hollywood. And I think there's, we almost need a Tracy for higher ed with all the jargon. I like that. Yeah, I, I, I think I'm gonna, I might adopt a Tracy, uh, for that. Um, so Brian, what do you see as the future of content marketing over the next, you know, five to 10 years?
[00:41:20] A as you said, the first edition of this book was 10 years ago when Google Plus was still a thing, you know, what are you seeing evolving, um, as maybe there's a third edition down the road?
[00:41:30] Brian Piper: You never know in 10 more years. Uh, and that was a, a great, uh, what whole chapter of the book is, is what is the future?
[00:41:37] We talk to all sorts of, uh, influencers and, and well-established content marketers, and pretty much they all said 10 years. There's no way we can even begin to predict what's gonna happen, but. Just looking at what's going on with technology and trust issues in our society, I think we're gonna see more and more [00:42:00] emphasis on community.
[00:42:01] Mm-hmm. And on, um, opportunities to build that trust and create those real personal human connections with people. I think users are gonna be more interested in. Having brands and institutions take stands and really look at things like, you know, how are we protecting your data? How can we personalize experiences and personalize education for, you know, each individual, uh, that's coming to, to pay us, to teach them, and to help them become better people.
[00:42:37] Um, and I also think we're going to see. Education evolving. Uh, as we keep exploring new landscapes, I think the metaverse is going to have a, a dramatic impact. Um, I was at a conference last week, uh, where a metaverse company was giving a presentation, and they already have 150 universities [00:43:00] who have. Um, virtual twins already created in the metaverse where they're already teaching classes and having students from around the world collaborate on research projects.
[00:43:11] So I think we're gonna see a lot of things changing. Technology is certainly going to create some, some shifts and I think our society's need for connection and trust is going to, uh, definitely create all sorts of opportunities and challenges. Yeah,
[00:43:29] Jaime Hunt: the way that AI in particular has evolved and when you mentioned trust, I think about, I think a couple weeks ago some photos were circulating of the Pope in various garb, and then there was, um, some photos that were.
[00:43:44] Created by AI that looked incredibly real of Donald Trump being arrested and taken down by F B I agents. And I, I wonder how we're going to even know if something's legitimate or not. And I, I think that like veracity, um, and credibility [00:44:00] of our content is going to be even more important as we go into the future.
[00:44:05] It's a little daunting, but also really exciting.
[00:44:09] Brian Piper: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think we're going to rely less on, um, kind of these big amorphous brands and we're gonna start looking for. People that we can connect with and trust as our sources of information because we know when we go to them, they're not going to give us AI generated images and content.
[00:44:31] They're gonna give us their real thoughts and real content, and we're gonna be able to find what we, uh, connect with and what resonates with us.
[00:44:38] Jaime Hunt: And it seems like it's becoming more and more important every year for people to resonate with the values of a brand. Um, and to feel like their values are echoed in a, in a, the brand's values and that they're in alignment with that.
[00:44:53] And I just see that over the past, you know, maybe five to 10 years kind of escalate where people are [00:45:00] choosing what beer they drink based on. What they think the values of the company are, what clothing they wear. Um, and I think our institutions have a lesson to learn from that. For sure.
[00:45:11] Brian Piper: Definitely.
[00:45:12] Definitely.
[00:45:13] Jaime Hunt: So what advice do you have for higher ed marketers that are maybe just starting out with content marketing or want to make a shift toward content marketing, but they might not have a big budget or a team that has a lot of expertise in this. Where do you think they should start?
[00:45:28] Brian Piper: I always tell people to start small, start with a small project, create a a few pieces of content that really focus on particular users that really focus on a answering questions and adding value, and are really connected with your business goals.
[00:45:46] And once you have some of that, you know, Quality, useful content, um, then you can figure out how to get that out there. I mean, we started off with a handful of SEO projects and we [00:46:00] were optimizing a few pieces of content that students, uh, potential students seemed to be gravitating towards. And once we were able to show leadership the increase in traffic to those pieces of content, then they were like, oh, well this is something that we should probably be doing everywhere.
[00:46:17] Um, and we see it. Uh, a lot of institutions, university of Chicago created their podcast network, and now they started off with just a couple of very niche, very focused podcasts of, uh, addressing very particular audiences. And now they have a whole variety of, of podcasts. Um, and Purdue kind of did the same thing.
[00:46:39] They have, you know, all sorts of segmented content hubs for all of their different audiences, um, which I think is, you know, the. Lots of different institutions that are really starting to embrace content marketing and really seeing the power of engaging with your, I mean, [00:47:00] user-generated content. Uh, U W E Bristol has a whole program for student content creators that teaches them how to be content creators and then lets them create content for the institution.
[00:47:12] That is so cool. We just saw Harvard and East Carolina University partner with Mr. Beast, who's now going to be teaching students how to be YouTubers, which is what students want to be, so why not figure out how to give them that content and connect with them with those creators.
[00:47:31] Jaime Hunt: When I was at Miami, I was really excited because we had a podcast network that was, you know, just kind of.
[00:47:39] Decentralized, right? There are all these little podcasts and we were trying to kind of centralize them into, you know, something that was a little bit more easy to access all of that type of content. Um, but one of the things that we had was a podcast called Major Insights that interviewed students about their majors, why they chose that majors, what they were getting out of their [00:48:00] classes, um, what some of their favorite professors were.
[00:48:03] So it's really useful content for any student, right? As you're thinking about a major. But then it's on the Miami University, um, podcast network and it's, you know, talking about Miami University faculty staff, um, Miami University coursework. So it's like this sneaky sort of way of, this is Miami, but it was really useful information and it was really, really popular.
[00:48:26] Um, Both on campus and off campus. Um, I, I think podcasts are a little bit underrated in higher ed in terms of their ability to be a content marketing strategy for higher ed marketers.
[00:48:39] Brian Piper: Yeah. And podcasts tend to be, uh, an extremely effective way to engage, especially an existing audience. It can be challenging to grow a new audience with the podcast cuz there's so many of them.
[00:48:51] But that podcast content. Is a wealth of repurposable content that you can then use [00:49:00] on all of those channels where it's much easier to build that audience. And, uh, I, I think you do an excellent job of it, of really figuring out best ways to, uh, promote and engage using what you pull out of your, your podcast content.
[00:49:14] Jaime Hunt: I'll say my podcast is like, solely so I can learn from a bunch of other smart people so that I can get better at my job. And then now it's out here in the world for everybody else to, to listen to too. It's just a sneaky ploy to get to talk to people like Brian. Um, this is, this has been fantastic. What resources do you recommend, um, in addition, of course, to your book, um, for people interested in learning more?
[00:49:37] Brian Piper: Uh, content Marketing Institute has just a, a wealth of knowledge. That's the, uh, business that Joe started. Uh, Joe and Robert Rose started that, and, uh, then Joe sold it a couple years ago and now he runs the Tilt. Uh, and that's also another great resource for, it's really focused on content entrepreneurs.
[00:49:57] For high ed [00:50:00] specifically, I'm, uh, in High Ed web. I'm very active in that community. It's, uh, a wonderful community of people always just looking to share and, you know, we have lots of just open discussion groups. Um, yeah, that's probably my, my best recommendation for higher ed. Focused. Hi,
[00:50:20] Jaime Hunt: ed Webb is fantastic.
[00:50:22] Um, I, I was, um, active with them back when that was more of my role, and it is just awesome people helping each other out and sharing their, their wisdom and knowledge. It's a fantastic organization. Brian, where can people find you if they want to ask you any questions?
[00:50:38] Brian Piper: I am on brian w piper.com and then I also am Brian w Piper on almost all social channels.
[00:50:46] Awesome.
[00:50:47] Jaime Hunt: Well, listeners, um, you also can find me as always on Twitter for now at Jamie Hunt, I m c. That's j a i m e h u n t I M C on LinkedIn, where I'm [00:51:00] spending a lot more time these days. Um, Jamie Hunt. Um, also you can find me on my website. Uh, The, the higher ed cmo.com. Um, I would love to chat with you and I hope that you'll engage in some conversation about this episode using the hashtag higher ed c m O on whatever channel is your favorite or all channels.
[00:51:20] Brian, any closing thoughts before we wrap up?
[00:51:23] Brian Piper: No, I just tell you know, everyone out there focus on telling good stories and make sure that you're connecting your users to your strategic goals and that you're looking at your data to make sure that everything's working the way you think it is.
[00:51:38] Jaime Hunt: That right there in a nugget is a perfect summary of this episode and what you, um, hopefully have learned.
[00:51:43] I hope you took notes, um, and I hope I will see you again in a future episode. Until then, let's go bus some silos.
[00:51:54] Brian Piper: Hey y'all. Zach here from Enroll five. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O with Jamie Hunt. [00:52:00] If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and hit that follow and subscribe button below. Furthermore, if you've got just two minutes to spare, we would greatly appreciate you leading a rating and a review of this show on Apple Podcasts.
[00:52:13] Our podcast network is growing by the month, and we've got a plethora of marketing admissions and higher ed technology shows that are jam-packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks that are all designed to empower you to become a better higher ed professional. But in RFI is far more than just the podcast network in RFI is where higher ed comes to learn new marketing skills, discover new products and services.
[00:52:35] And find their next job. We're a growing learning community of 4,000 members, and we'd love to welcome you into the fold. You can access our free blog, articles, newsletters, e-courses, and more, or purchase our master course on how to market a university with Terry flannery@enrollfi.org. We look forward to meeting you soon and welcoming you into the community.
[00:52:55] Again, you can subscribe for free@enrollfi.org.[00:53:00]
About the Episode
The what's what...
In this episode of "Confessions of a Higher Ed CMO," Jaime is joined by Brian Piper, author of Epic Content Marketing, Second Edition. Brian shares valuable insights and strategies to help higher education marketers navigate the ever-changing landscape of content marketing. This episode uncovers the secrets to creating engaging content that captures the hearts and minds of your audiences.
Takeaways from this episode include:
- An understanding of the six principles of epic content marketing
- Insights into the essential elements of a successful content marketing strategy
- Advice on content that drives engagement, fosters relationships, and yields results
- Guidance on leveraging the power of storytelling to captivate your audiences
- Tips for nurturing your audience and building brand loyalty
- Methodologies for tracking the effectiveness of your content efforts
- Insights into the future of content marketing in higher education
This episode is brought to you by our friends at Mindpower:
Confessions of a Higher Ed CMO is sponsored by our friends at Mindpower- a full-service marketing and branding firm celebrating nearly thirty years of needle-moving, thought-provoking, research-fueled creative and strategy. Mindpower is women-founded and owned, WBENC certified, nationally recognized, and serves the social sector – higher education, healthcare, non-profits, and more. The Mindpower team is made up of strategists, storytellers, and experience creators. From market research to brand campaigns to recruitment to fundraising, the agency exists to empower clients, amplify brands, and help institutions find a strategic way forward. Learn more about Mindpower here!
About the Enrollify podcast Network:
Confessions of a Higher Ed CMO is a part of the Enrollify Podcast Network. If you like this podcast, chances are you’ll like other Enrollify shows too!
Our podcast network is growing by the month and we’ve got a plethora of marketing, admissions, and higher ed technology shows that are jam packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks all designed to empower you to be a better higher ed professional. Our shows feature a selection of the industry’s best as your hosts. Learn from Mickey Baines, Zach Busekrus, Jeremy Tiers, Corynn Myers, Jaime Gleason and many more.
Learn more about The Enrollify Podcast Network at podcasts.enrollify.org. Our shows help higher ed marketers and admissions professionals find their next big idea — come and find yours!
About the Podcast
Transformation has been a hallmark of Jaime's career. In nearly 20 years working in higher education, she been part of four university rebrandings and five website overhauls. She's been hands-on in the development of an integrated marketing communications model at three institutions. As a result, she has gained extensive expertise in brand strategy, recruitment marketing, internal communications, crisis communications, issues management, online innovation, and media relations. She also has in her portfolio government relations and, for two years, she oversaw a public radio station. She is currently the vice president for university communications and chief marketing officer for Old Dominion University, a 23,000-student public R1 research institution in Coastal Virginia. Prior to her current role, she was the vice president and chief communications and marketing officer for Miami University (the one in not-as-sunny Oxford, Ohio). She also served in marketing and media relations leadership roles at Winston-Salem State University (North Carolina), Radford University (Virginia), the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh, and Northwestern Health Sciences University (Minnesota). Her background also includes more than four years as a print journalist and three years working for nonprofits and in nonprofit consulting. She earned my bachelor's degree in journalism from the University of Minnesota and her master's degree in integrated marketing communications from West Virginia University.
Brian Piper has been optimizing digital content performance since 1996. He is the co-author of the second edition of Epic Content Marketing, an international keynote speaker, and an educator. He is currently the Director of Content Strategy and Assessment at the University of Rochester. Brian grew up on a rabbit farm in Dogpatch, Arkansas and now lives in Rochester, New York, with his wife and six children. He is an adventurer and spends his time mountain biking, whitewater kayaking, and teaching wingsuit skydiving.
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Mindpower is a full-service marketing and branding firm celebrating nearly thirty years of needle-moving, thought-provoking, research-fueled creative and strategy. Mindpower is women-founded and owned, WBENC certified, nationally recognized, and serves the social sector – higher education, healthcare, non-profits, and more. The Mindpower team is made up of strategists, storytellers, and experience creators. From market research to brand campaigns to recruitment to fundraising, the agency exists to empower clients, amplify brands, and help institutions find a strategic way forward. Learn more about the amazing work Mindpower is doing here!
learn moreConfessions of a Higher Ed CMO
Host Jaime Hunt engages in candid and insightful conversations with leading minds in the field, exploring not just the nuts and bolts of marketing, but also the diverse and often unexpected challenges and stories that define higher education marketing.
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