Inside the Four-Year College Decision Project: Tracking Trends and Lessons Learned

Full Transcript

Enrollify_ConfessionsofaHigherEdCMO_Audio_Ep29S3E4_DeniseLamphier_Version2

[00:00:00] Jaime Hunt: Hi, I'm a higher ed c m O and I have a confession to make. I actually didn't apply to any colleges. My parents told me, uh, what university that they would pay for, which I'm ever grateful that they paid for my college. But it was the university that I was attending as a high school student. So in my state, if you were a certain rank in your.

[00:00:21] High school class, you could take college classes at the University of Minnesota or any other institution in Minnesota. Um, and the state actually paid for those credits. And so I just kept going to the University of Minnesota cuz that's what my parents that they'd paid for. And so I have not really a lot of personal experience.

[00:00:42] With, uh, college search and because I don't have any children, um, I don't have any sort of secondhand knowledge either. And so when Denise Lamber shared with me information about a, a project that she undertook with her son to. Collect [00:01:00] all of the materials that her son got over his time, um, from his freshman year until his senior year, and kind of do a little report on what that looked like.

[00:01:09] I was absolutely fascinated, and I think that you will really enjoy hearing Denise's insights in this episode.

[00:01:34] Welcome to Confessions of a Higher Ed cmo, the podcast design for Higher Education marketers. I'm your host, Jamie Hunt, and I am so excited to have this opportunity to share insights and inspiration with Confessions of a Higher Ed cmo. I'm designing a different kind of podcasting experience. With each episode, I'll be bringing in a guest for a deep dive into the challenges and joys we all face in higher education marketing.[00:02:00] 

[00:02:00] After each episode, you can join the conversation on Twitter by using the hashtag higher ed cmo. I would love to see this become like a book club, but for a podcast. And be sure to follow me on Twitter at at Jamie Hunt i m C, that's J A i m E H U N T I M C for more opportunities to connect.

[00:02:26] Denise Lamphier: I am 

[00:02:27] Jaime Hunt: absolutely thrilled to be here with Denise Lair, who is the director of Marketing and communications at Des Moines University. Denise, 

[00:02:34] Denise Lamphier: how are you? I'm great. It's so exciting to be here, Jamie. 

[00:02:38] Jaime Hunt: I'm so happy to have you. I was telling Denise before we started recording that, um, when I saw the, um, PowerPoint that she presented at the Cup Wrap conference about the topic we're tackling today.

[00:02:50] I got so geeked out, like I absolutely was like, we have to have to have her on the show. This is, this is gonna be amazing. So before we jump into talking about, um, the [00:03:00] project that you undertook with your son, tell us a little bit about your higher ed journey. 

[00:03:04] Denise Lamphier: Yeah. Uh, it's been a little bit all over the place, to be honest with you.

[00:03:08] I've spent most of my career either working for higher ed or healthcare, and in some cases I've been doing both at, uh, at two different places. Um, when I got my, uh, undergraduate degree at the University of Iowa, I worked in the public relations offices for the colleges of medicine and nursing and, um, pharmacy did a quick stint as a daily newspaper reporter and then, um, Worked at Grinnell College in Iowa for a number of years, and then I always joked that I got the only other public relations job in Grinnell, Iowa at the hospital there.

[00:03:43] And I actually stayed a little bit longer than I ever intended to, but it was a very progressive place and um, uh, learned a lot and had a lot of fun there. About six years ago I was like, I miss higher ed and, um, I, uh, was fortunate enough to get [00:04:00] a position leading the communications team at Central College in Pella, Iowa.

[00:04:05] And, um, I stayed there for about five years and I just very recently joined the, um, team at Des Moines University promoting, um, the medical and health sciences here. In in Des Moines. That's awesome. 

[00:04:19] Jaime Hunt: So I have to end this conversation now cuz I didn't realize you went to University of Iowa, which is just my Oh, is that, you know, arch Enemy.

[00:04:26] So it's 

[00:04:27] Denise Lamphier: great. Those, those are fighting words. Oh no, 

[00:04:31] Jaime Hunt: I, I had someone on my staff, um, at Miami went there and it was just this constant, cuz I went to University of Minnesota, this constant like, Battle between us Every time she'd be like, oh yeah, I'm from Iowa. I'd be like, mm-hmm. Yep. Nobody's perfect, you know?

[00:04:48] Right. Well, th 

[00:04:49] Denise Lamphier: this is true. Uh, you know, I will say though, one thing that Iowa did do really well this year was basketball, women's basketball. How about that? Like, you have to give us that, right, Jamie? Well, you 

[00:04:59] Jaime Hunt: [00:05:00] beat us all the time. So I am contractually obligated to hate. Iowa, but I do have to acknowledge that you are superior to us in most sports.

[00:05:13] My sister actually just took a job at the University of Minnesota and I'm just like the proudest big sister ever. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So, um, You tackled this amazing project with your son, I would love to hear from you about this project that you undertook with 

[00:05:28] Denise Lamphier: him. Key word there is project. Earlier I, when you and I were talking, you called it a study and I want nothing to do with something as official as that because it really, there's just so many.

[00:05:39] Ways that this is not, you know, scientific, it's, it's really a mom's perspective who also happens to be, um, a marketer who's been doing this for a while and, you know, watching her ninth grader through 12th grade son, um, experience how colleges were approaching him and, um, Kind of [00:06:00] some of the things that I took away with the support of my team at at Central College at the time.

[00:06:05] It was one of those things, it takes a long time for an idea to to come to you, and then other times you're like, I'm doing this and it's gonna be amazing. He received his very first piece of college material in August, right before he started his freshman year in high school. Wow. And I had been working at Central, uh, maybe a little over a half a year at that point.

[00:06:29] And it was fascinating watching him get this piece. Again, he's only a freshman. He's very young. He was, he was jazzed mom. I got this piece in the meal from, Um, a college and feel it. It had like a soft touch on it. Mm-hmm. And so he was really, um, enamored with this, uh, soft touch material. I can't believe that colleges are already recruiting me, like somebody who wants me.

[00:06:52] Like that was, you know, his wide-eyed, um, uh, freshman take on it. I'll be honest with you. By the time this project was all [00:07:00] said and done, he was like, oh, not another piece. Please make it stop. Um, which is I think part of the lesson of, of what I have to. To share for us all in terms of figuring out all of that.

[00:07:11] Um, and so kind of in that moment I was like, huh, I wonder if there's something that I can glean from this because I'm back in to higher ed after being out of it for a number of years and focusing on healthcare marketing. And, um, so. I, I had a conversation with him a few days later and I said, you know, I've been thinking about you getting that piece of mail and I'm wondering, would you embark on a four year project with me?

[00:07:36] And I'm thinking, if, if we could do this, we get the pieces in the mail. We'll date them as soon as they arrive in the, in the house. So, you know, we had a big old black Sharpie in our, by our mail place at home, and we'd date the, the materials. And then he also agreed to write in a journal about like his take oh on some of the pieces [00:08:00] that, uh, he got, you know, sometimes they were really thoughtful comments and other times they were like, yep, there was another one with a tree on it.

[00:08:09] I'm guessing that happened a lot. It did more than a. More than I, uh, would like for colleges and universities to continue to use. Right. That would be a piece of advice. 

[00:08:19] Jaime Hunt: A kid with a backpack under a tree, 

[00:08:21] Denise Lamphier: right? Yeah. Or in a building. Don't forget the buildings. Yes. So he a agreed to to do that. And so I would also kept a journal about my, um, Take on his re responses.

[00:08:35] So that was helpful to me later just because I decided, oh, I've got enough material here to write an essay about, um, this experience. So that was one of the first things I did with, um, the gleanings, well, first more outwardly facing thing I had done with the gleanings that I had taken from, from him being a visual per person in marketing and communications, I thought, I wonder what my, the rest of my team can learn about, about this process too, because, [00:09:00] um, there was just a lot and so, I talked to them and I said, what do you think about if we tape all this stuff up on the wall?

[00:09:07] Like, yeah, we could put it in a box, but then it's in a box and we'll probably forget about it. And so, um, I went out and I even bought, uh, central's colors are red and white, and so I even got branded tape. Um, nice. And, uh, for, for the four years of this project, we taped every. Everything up on the wall, uh, in the communications offices.

[00:09:30] Wow. At Central. So you really kind of got a feel of the start and stop and lurch and progression in a different way than you do if it had just been in, in a box. And I think too, um, some of the things that we noticed, um, from that process was you could like tell, oh, These were done by vendors? Yeah, these were actually done by the college and university.

[00:09:54] Oh. These were sent not only done by vendors, but the admission office did not involve the communications [00:10:00] team in the, in the evaluation of this document. Um, And so like, those were some of the things that we picked up. You know, we also would, we saw some trends over, over time, and obviously in the middle of all this, unfortunately we had to deal with a little thing called a pandemic.

[00:10:15] So there was a really abrupt change. Then I've often wondered what things might've looked like at over the four years had we not had had a pandemic. Um, you know, I can share at some point how many pieces of material he received, but, um, I, I think it probably would've been more if we hadn't had that pandemic in the middle of all of that.

[00:10:37] Did you print out 

[00:10:38] Jaime Hunt: emails and paste those 

[00:10:39] Denise Lamphier: up as well? No, we did not do that because there wa would not have been enough, um, enough wall space in fact, with the pieces that, um, he received. I actually have my husband, um, come down to Central and he measured, we are estimating, um, about 900 square feet of wall space for the four years of.

[00:10:58] Just the print [00:11:00] materials. But Emory did give me, um, access to all of his, um, emails in his school account, so I could go in at any time. He would usually just put them in a folder, um, for me, and then I would sort them by college or university so I could see how many he was getting from different places and what the, the, the themes of the, uh, week or day, um, or year might, might be.

[00:11:28] He did not even journal about those. Um, he quickly learned that that was just gonna be way more, much, way more of a time commitment. So again, that's also why this is not a scientific study, right? We, we didn't even look at, unfortunately, we didn't talk much about, um, Uh, websites or social media or videos, um, and, you know, so many of the other inter integrated marketing tools that are important to the work that we do.

[00:11:56] So this really is just a glimpse at like a few [00:12:00] of the things that my son experienced during that, that piece.

[00:12:08] Jaime Hunt: Hey all. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O. I wanna take a moment to thank my friends at mindpower who are making season two of this volfi podcast. Possible. Mindpower is a full service marketing and branding firm celebrating nearly 30 years of needle moving, thought-provoking, research, fueled creative and strategy.

[00:12:29] Mindpower is woman founded and owned, W B E N C, certified nationally. Recognized and serves the social sector, higher education, healthcare, nonprofits, and more. The MINDPOWER team is made up of strategists, storytellers, and experienced creators. From market research to brand campaigns to recruitment to fundraising, the agency exists to empower clients, amplify brands, and help institutions find a strategic way forward.

[00:12:55] You can learn more about their work in the world by heading on over to Mind Power Inc. That's M I [00:13:00] n D P O W E R I N c.com. And be sure to tell the crew that Jamie sent you their way. When I was looking at your, your findings, I was struck by some of the metrics, like some of the, the sheer volume. Can you tell us a little bit about what some of those statistics are for the materials that he received?

[00:13:19] Denise Lamphier: Sure. Um, well over four years, he was recruited by 90 different colleges and universities. Wow. And he, he was a good student. I mean, he's not, you know, Valedictorian of his class by any means. But in, when he was in uh, uh, elementary school, he was part of the talented and gifted program. And so when he was in seventh grade as part of that program, he did take the P S A T.

[00:13:43] Hmm. Which is also why I do think that he. Started receiving college materials, um, right before his first year of high school. Um, and I also think simultaneously, Jamie, that the pandemic postponed the timing for when [00:14:00] many of his other, uh, classmates who hadn't been part of that program started getting materials because they sometimes weren't getting things until like mid junior year.

[00:14:10] Wow. So very shortened, um, recruitment. Um, phase for them. So 90 different colleges and universities. Over that four year period, you've received 5,228 emails. Oh my god. 

[00:14:25] Jaime Hunt: How were they all from Miami? Cause that's about how many we sent. 

[00:14:32] Denise Lamphier: He also received 300 postcards and then another total 300. Other direct mail pieces that varied from letters and viewbooks to, um, flyers and pamphlets and tho those kinds of things.

[00:14:46] I didn't really go deeper into categorizing those. Um, there was just a, a lot of them and he also received 27 handwritten notes. Hmm. Um, uh, I thought that was an [00:15:00] interesting, you know, diff differentiation. And then, um, finally, One Frisbee. He received one Frisbee in the mail. Did 

[00:15:09] Jaime Hunt: he receive any other swaggy type things?

[00:15:12] Pens, T-shirts, anything like 

[00:15:13] Denise Lamphier: that? Um, you know, the other items like that, that he got, uh, were not mailed. Okay. Um, they were all part of like campus visits and, and that kind of thing. So, um, nothing out of the blue in those early recruitment days before he had kind of, Finally raised a hand and applied or gone for, for a visit, you know, that triggered I, you know, more, more activity in swag.

[00:15:38] But in those, those early days rather, I think, um, the swag opportunity came with, Hey, fill out this form and we'll send you a tip sheet on five ways to get into the colleges of your dream world. Or, you know, variations on that theme. Um, did he do any of those? No, no, he did not. [00:16:00] Um, he adamantly refused cuz he totally knew that what all of, uh, all of us were after were his email address and his, um, uh, phone number.

[00:16:09] In fact, at one point he told me that, Um, he didn't understand why colleges and universities asked for that information because he was already getting enough stuff and didn't they realize that? Mm-hmm. So I, again, you know, I thought that was an interesting perspective. Um, one thing that I also found interesting is, That over the course of the time that he was, um, doing this, he did occasionally get, um, emails and a, a small handful of letters that said, thank you for requesting this information that he didn't request.

[00:16:40] Ah, interesting. I was immediately accused of, Hey mom, you filled out this request for me. I know you did. And I honestly, other than, you know, the only interference I had was asking him to please fill out his journal, like this needed to be his, his college experience, and I [00:17:00] didn't want to. Um, drive that in in any way.

[00:17:03] So even though it was really hard a hundred percent as the marketing mom not to fill out some of those because I was dying to see them. Yeah. Right. I, I didn't, I didn't fill any of those out, so, yeah. That was interesting. That's 

[00:17:17] Jaime Hunt: amazing. 90 colleges, I feel like that offers us a, a pretty good glimpse at what it's like to.

[00:17:24] Sort of have to stand out from the noise, right? If you're recruiting those high ability students, I remember. My sister's gonna hate this story, but, um, I got a very high score on my a c t and it was every day was view books. I mean, it was just view books, view books, view books, view books, view books. This was like really long time ago, so there wasn't really internet and like email then.

[00:17:46] Right. But, but my sister, who did not get as high a score, she's a very smart person, but she did not test on standardized tests as well as I did. Um, didn't get that many. And my parents had thought that that was like, [00:18:00] What I got was what every kid got. Oh, sure. You know? Yeah. So it was like this, you know, this, this massive pile to have to sort through.

[00:18:07] Um, but 90 is a lot to try to, you know, and then, Spoiler. This is spoiling it for, for listeners, but did he end up at any of the schools he was receiving materials from? And I know where he ended up, but the listeners don't. Yes, 

[00:18:21] Denise Lamphier: he, he did end up at one of the places that he was receiving materials from and ironically, of all the places that, uh, he ended up going to, I'm.

[00:18:31] Still surprised to this day because it had one huge disadvantage that the other places did not. And that was that I worked there. Um, he, he was very adamant that he was not gonna be going, going to Central, but we continued to send him stuff and invite him to campus visits. And he kind of finally acqui acquiesced.

[00:18:53] Um, and he loved the campus visit and so, Even [00:19:00] despite the fact that I was working there at the time, he, he did, um, did choose Central College, and I think I have some numbers somewhere. I did, uh, they were on the lower end actually, of some of the, um, places in terms of, um, how many pieces he received over the course of four years.

[00:19:16] I, I counted them, um, including the emails, and I don't remember the email count off the top of my head, but. Over four years. He got a, I think it was a little over 40, um, pieces from Central that included, um, at the end, things after he had deposited. So we were trying to prevent melt and, and those sorts of things.

[00:19:38] Um, one college sent him, um, 387 emails over the course of the four years they were the winner winner chicken dinner on, on the number of, uh, emails. Um, Uh, sent and they were so, so random, like, you know, and they didn't know much about him, so I kind of understand the, the randomness, like, yeah, they [00:20:00] didn't know he was a music major or music, um, a guy who liked music and maybe wanted to major in communications and they didn't know.

[00:20:07] And so I think they were just, Throw in all the darts on the, the board to see if anything would, would stick. I'm dying 

[00:20:14] Jaime Hunt: to know what school it is, but I'm not gonna make you edit it. Yep. But I gonna ask if it was Miami,

[00:20:22] that's about the volume that we were to. The students 

[00:20:27] Denise Lamphier: when I was there. Yeah. Nope. I, I'll, I can assure you it was not, that one was not Miami. And again, you know, this whole process too, I'm not gonna out anybody. I, you know, we all make mistakes. And I think the other thing too, that, like the spirit in which I, I, uh, approach this project was what can we learn from it and how can we make each other better?

[00:20:46] Um, because at the end of the day, we all make, make mistakes and do silly things that, um, you know, maybe, uh, didn't. Didn't work as well as we thought they did in our, in our, um, in our heads. So, yes. [00:21:00] 

[00:21:00] Jaime Hunt: Well, and there's also like the external pressure, like, I, I hate to say this, but you know, that was a president where Moore is better.

[00:21:10] You know, so it was like, how many emails did you send? A hundred? Well, let's send 200 because maybe that will double our results or whatever. So, you know, so you just don't know what the comms teams were dealing with on, on 

[00:21:21] Denise Lamphier: that side of things too. Oh, right. Yeah. And, and again, I think, um, you know, what I learned even would be like some talking points to talk to that president, um, a about like.

[00:21:34] Do we really wanna send more emails to ki uh, the average kid who might be getting 5,228 emails over the course of four years in the same inbox as the homework assignments that they're getting for, for school? Um, Emery did not include his social, um, calendar stuff in that when he agreed to let me do it, he moved that over into a different email account, which I don't, again, it was all very done, [00:22:00] very respectfully, but you know, they're also like having their life in, in there too.

[00:22:04] Yeah. And it's hard to filter out, um, especially when. Um, on any busy calendar day besides doing homework and participating in extracurricular activities, there's homecoming and, um, dating and, um, all those, all those things. So like the, just life. Yeah. Yeah. It make it, it definitely helps kids learn how to be allergic to email.

[00:22:27] Yeah. 

[00:22:28] Jaime Hunt: Right. Then we're shocked when they don't read their email when they get to campus, 

[00:22:32] Denise Lamphier: right? Yes. We've kind of trained them. 

[00:22:36] Jaime Hunt: So are there. Trends that you noticed was, were there volume shifts? And I know the pandemic may have influenced this a little bit, but did you see any trends or shifts over the four years?

[00:22:47] Denise Lamphier: Yeah. You know, obviously that first year it was a trickle. There wasn't a ton. Things started picking up, um, for him, uh, in the fall of his sophomore year. Um, and those would've been those search pieces with [00:23:00] those, um, themes of fill out this form and we'll send you, um, information that we know you're dying to have.

[00:23:07] And, um, he was still getting those when the pandemic kind of opened up, um, the, the door too. That fun time, um, and things just like shriveled to next to nothing in terms of those, uh, direct mail pieces. But the email really amped up at that point, cuz I think we were all, um, You know, uh, hunting and trying to figure out how can we stay in touch in this crazy undecisive world As things started rolling back up again, um, the first thing I noticed was that QR codes were back.

[00:23:42] Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I had to eat some crow after that cuz I had literally in 2019 said, QR codes are dead, no one's using them. Um, and they came back, uh, in full force and, you know, some colleges really took that to, um, A advantage and branded them and did them [00:24:00] well. And other colleges just went with the free, um, little square that you could get off of any, any service.

[00:24:08] And I'm telling you, those, uh, branded ones were pretty dang impressive as he progressed into, once he started making visits and, and talking to counselors, he did start getting more personal mail. And I will share with you that, um, one of the things that we talked about at. At Central was, can we do some more like handwritten notes even before they're, um, more, more serious in the funnel?

[00:24:33] What can we do to attract a kid who's, you know, in, in the pool is maybe an inquiry but hasn't applied? How can we use, um, A handwritten note to effect change. Um, and then the other trend, Jamie, that I saw, um, was that more and more colleges started offering, um, Scholarships, or as my son called them, fake scholarships, um, [00:25:00] to come to campus for a visit day.

[00:25:02] The offerings were, I think the lowest one I saw was like for $400. And then there was a one college that offered a $4,000 scholarship if you had just come to campus for, um, a visit one day. Wow. 

[00:25:16] Jaime Hunt: And you're totally right that I, I think I saw in your, your PowerPoint that, um, your son said they're just tacking that onto the price of 

[00:25:24] Denise Lamphier: tuition.

[00:25:25] Yep. Yep. Kind of seeing right through that. Yeah, that's, he's very savvy. He, well, I, he is a, i, I, you know, I am a mo that proud mom marketer, so it's, yeah, he made the Dean's list on the first, uh, his first semester of college too, at Central. So, um, I'm not, I'm annoyingly proud of him. Yes. So did 

[00:25:48] Jaime Hunt: you, are there any pieces that stood out positively and were the pieces that stood out positively to him, different from the ones that stood out to you?

[00:25:56] Denise Lamphier: Mm-hmm. Um, Okay. So he was, I [00:26:00] found him to be very tactical, so the feel of the paper was very important to him. Um, so he would spend more time with something if he liked how it felt. Oh. Um, another thing, and this surprised me and it. It also, I think, um, at least every college and university I've ever worked at, especially if there's like, you know, 50 to 70 or more, um, majors, this is like the bane of our existence.

[00:26:25] But, um, he loved the major lists and the minor lists and he poured over those and, um, kind of used those as a deciding factor on whether he was gonna spend much more time with. With a piece. And if a major that he was thinking about wasn't included in the, uh, list, it just got pushed aside and didn't get, uh, looked at again.

[00:26:48] If it was there, then he would spend more time with, um, a piece and, and dive in and, um, At least read it, um, or skim it. Yep. W 

[00:26:59] Jaime Hunt: were there [00:27:00] pieces that stood out to you that he 

[00:27:01] Denise Lamphier: was like, eh, actually one more thing that he was also enamored by is the use of his name. Hmm. So the more personalized a piece was, the more he liked it.

[00:27:10] Um, and, and creative uses of his name too. So like a postcard that just said Emory in big letters on the front side. And that didn't use trees or buildings, um, that, that, that grabbed his attention and kind of, I think in his journal. Um, Jamie at one point he wrote, yeah, that kind of made me feel a little special, um, in, in a real way.

[00:27:36] Um, So, which also surprised me cuz it was a postcard. And you and I both know that that's just, you know, variable data, but it's super easy, right? But again, it's super easy. So why aren't we doing it right? Yeah, absolutely. And the bad part is now, you know, we're sharing all these trade secrets and then everybody will start doing it.

[00:27:54] But, um, I, I, again, I think it's also, we all just all just need [00:28:00] to learn how to be thoughtful. For me in terms of what, uh, stood out the most was like, I could literally see, um, or like to kid myself that I could, I could see when a college or a university had a plan based on the flow of communications he was getting from them.

[00:28:17] Or if they didn't, um, you know, we, I saw everything from those 90 colleges to. One place sent him one email and that was it. And we never heard from them again. Oh. And like, why did you even bother? Yeah. You know, what, what are you, what are you hoping to get out of that? You know, one, one email. And then I did share with you the other institution that had sent 387 emails and they, they were also the highest performing direct meal piece.

[00:28:46] University for him. They went on all fronts of bombarding him with information digitally and in the, in the US Postal Service. 

[00:28:56] Jaime Hunt: Was he impressed by the 

[00:28:57] Denise Lamphier: Frisbee? Um, no. [00:29:00] Good to 

[00:29:02] know 

[00:29:02] Jaime Hunt: before we all rush out and spend, you know, $5 on a 

[00:29:05] Denise Lamphier: Frisbee. The thing that amazed me about that Frisbee, first of all, it came in the mail.

[00:29:10] There was a, a message, it was about, um, a visit day and, um, uh, a scholarship offer for that particular visit day. So that was impressive that it. It did not come in an envelope. It was mailed as an irregular parcel. So it was the Frisbee itself, and then on the underside, uh, of the Frisbee, it had the, the mail label and wow.

[00:29:33] That that was it. Um, so it was very intriguing to me from that perspective. And I also would have to tell you, even though Emory thought it was ridiculous, and those were his words in his, um, journal, I will share that the thing that. I wanna give props to that college for is out of that massive amount of material, they were the only college or university that sent him a, a Frisbee.

[00:29:57] So it was memorable. Um, and [00:30:00] I was like, uh, kind of wondering if we could harness that creativity in, in a little bit different way, what could we have, um, accomplished? But I still wanna give them props for thinking out of the box and trying something new and recognizing that, you know, we wanted to. They needed to get some, uh, attention in a different way that, yeah, 

[00:30:20] Jaime Hunt: I, I, I'm very intrigued by the Frisbee being mailed just as the Frisbee.

[00:30:24] That's, that's really interesting. I'm also curious, you mentioned a little bit about the photography. Were there certain types of photography that resonated with him better? Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:35] Denise Lamphier: He. Liked groups of student pictures. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Tho those were attractive to the h him. Um, and I think again, it was like, where do I fit?

[00:30:46] You know, in, into this. Another thing that I thought was interesting, um, over the course of four years, and I doubt he would've noticed this if he hadn't been writing in a journal. Um, but also in, in, uh, for [00:31:00] awareness purposes. He never came to my office at Central. So once that left the house, that was kind of out of mind, you know?

[00:31:06] Yeah. Um, but it was amazing to me what he did. Remember over collectively over the four years, there was one college that for every visit day they did, um, they literally picked a different campus building with a different tree. And they did a, a color overlay, um, that was branded for them and then the front of the over that then put, come see our to our visit day on such and such a, such a date.

[00:31:31] And um, in his journal he wrote, yeah, I've gotten like six of these exact same postcards from this, this college. So because of that journal entry, I went back and looked at them. They actually weren't exactly the same, but they were so similar that he thought they were the same, and that really stood out to him.

[00:31:50] Um, there was another college, um, that over the four years I had counted this one too. They sent him a total of 30 different, um, [00:32:00] pieces over the four year period, and he did not apply there. So none of it was all. Like apply or informational about their university. And they had a favorite picture that they used three different times on three different postcards.

[00:32:15] Two of them were for a visit day and one was about, I think, financial aid. And they used the same lovely young lady, um, to, to um, promote that. And you know, you know, if you think about that, that's 10% of the content that they sent to him. They used the same, um, exact student who. Didn't really resonate, um, to my, my son.

[00:32:37] And, um, he even wrote in his journal, do they not have any other students? I wanna see the other students. Um, so that's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:32:48] Jaime Hunt: I, I'm cur, I I'm very, I would love to talk to that, uh, communication staff about, did they just run out of time? Did they just not have enough photography?

[00:32:58] Like what drove that [00:33:00] decision? You know, 

[00:33:00] Denise Lamphier: I, I thought the same, the same thing too. And again, there was, you know, for all of us, at least four to six months, right, where we weren't getting any fresh, fresh photos or, or content. But surely our libraries are, should be, should be a little more extensive than.

[00:33:16] Then that, so I, I mean, she was, she was beautiful. Um, 

[00:33:23] Jaime Hunt: uh, it's interesting that that wasn't necessarily, um, appealing to your son. I worked with somebody before, I was like the senior level communicator at a previous institution, and the senior level communicator said, always put pretty girls on the front.

[00:33:38] Because boys wanna see pretty girls go there and girls wanna see that pretty girls go there. So I thought it was, it was like, never put a boy. Nobody cares about the boys. Everybody cares about the girls. And there was no science to that. But that's, it's an interesting juxtaposition. Well, and you 

[00:33:54] Denise Lamphier: know, it maybe, I don't know when your leader was, um, sharing that information with you, [00:34:00] but I think the other thing too is that, The times are changing and they're changing faster.

[00:34:05] And I think with, uh, this generation of students too, like they're not afraid to share their opinion or, or be thoughtful about what's important to, to them. And, um, diversity was really, uh, important to, um, my son. Um, in terms of. Are there diverse students on, on campus and is the college and university, I'm showing that all colleges are trying to make sure that they're being sensitive to to that.

[00:34:35] But again, I think just something to pay attention to for, for all of us as well. 

[00:34:41] Jaime Hunt: Yeah, absolutely. When I was at the AMA Higher Ed Symposium in November in the senior leadership, um, Experience. I'm not sure if you were there or not. It was a pretty packed room, but, um, we had a panel with a bunch of students and one of the things that jumped out at me [00:35:00] was their emphasis on a, showing diversity on the campus, and then b, They were super interested in accessibility on the panel.

[00:35:09] About half the panel was saying like, if they couldn't find information about accessibility within a few clicks, they just ruled the school out. Um, one of them did, I believe, have a visual impairment. So her, for her, it was a very practical matter. Right? Right. But some of them, it was like they just, they cared about the world and if they felt it was important that if the school wasn't showcasing its accessibility that they.

[00:35:33] They didn't want, that wasn't a place they wanted to be. And my gosh, I love Gen Z cuz That's right. That's a tremendous way to think about 

[00:35:39] Denise Lamphier: things, right? It's all for one. One for all in in ways that I certainly when I was applying to colleges wasn't the case. No, absolutely. 

[00:35:49] Jaime Hunt: So I'm curious about how did your son, if at all, use the materials to make a decision about his college choice?

[00:35:56] I know you said the visit kind of sold him. Mm-hmm. Um, but. [00:36:00] Has he narrowed his list? Did the pieces play a role in that? 

[00:36:04] Denise Lamphier: Um, y yes, cuz um, there were some colleges that he would've never heard of being someone who grew, grew up in the middle of Iowa. Right. Um, and in fact, so he ended up applying to five colleges total.

[00:36:20] And, um, uh, Three of them were not in Iowa, two were in Iowa. Um, the, the other three were really in far flung places. And they were all selected because they were one of the 90 colleges that, um, had, um, been sending him things. Uh, the other reason why he selected them was because they were far, far, far away from home and he, he fancied himself as, um, uh, someone who was gonna go, strike it.

[00:36:53] Out there and um, uh, obviously he was paying attention and [00:37:00] obviously it drove him to apply to three colleges that he never would've heard of otherwise. At the end of the day though, and this is the part, right, like. Having our whole livelihoods, Jamie, contingent on the decision making process of 17 year olds, um, is like, uh, this process was definitely for me, like even more eye-opening into how mind-boggling that truly.

[00:37:25] Is, um, again, my husband and I tried to be there for Emory to have conversations. We both have attended college, but he also kind of wanted to do it on his own. He's a, he doesn't have siblings, so he is an only child in a hundred percent honesty. While he was in high school, the counselors were also scrambling, so there wasn't a lot of, I think, oh, some of those traditional things that high school counselors spend time on with, with students, and so, He was kind of clueless on how to make a decision.

[00:37:56] Yeah. And um, so [00:38:00] I think he picked three big colleges far, far away from home and then had these two other colleges that he had heard of before. Um, and, um, kind of went from it there. Um, he did go on, um, a number of college visits and. Um, what, um, he found, uh, varying degrees of welcoming and that matters mm-hmm.

[00:38:26] That mattered to him more than I ever would've thought. We were able to get him into, do a overnight visit. And he loved being able to eat in the cafeteria and stay in the residence halls with, um, another music student. He got to jam in the band to go to practice one night. Um, so his final decision making, I think came down to the fact that he really, really had a great visit.

[00:38:55] The red carpet was literally, you know, showing to him. [00:39:00] And, um, even though, but. This is where it gets frustrating cuz what I also see as like our work is so hard because at the end of the day, oh, how much does it matter? Yeah. Um, because the other decision ma making factor was that. He chose a college that's 45 minutes away from his home where he can go home and see his pet Guinea pigs as often as he wants to.

[00:39:26] Um, 

[00:39:28] Jaime Hunt: oh, that's awesome that you can't overcome the Guinea pigs, right? No. And we, there's no way for us to know about the Guinea pig. No, no, no. 

[00:39:37] Denise Lamphier: Or, or even any, you know, Tough situation that a student might be going through, whether something's happening with a sibling or a parent, or, you know, all of that is just beyond.

[00:39:49] Any grasp that, that we can have. Um, which is again, another reason why I think relationships with the mission department are really, really crucial, because that's where I think [00:40:00] some of that information can be, be garnered. You know, we have, we help with that top, um, end of the funnel and then hopefully we can turn it over to our wonderful peers in the admission office who can.

[00:40:11] Figure out that this kid needs a, um, on campus overnight visit and he needs to eat the vegan food in the cafeteria because it will help him make that decision and give him that relational conversation and support at, at a, at 

[00:40:27] Jaime Hunt: a previous institution somehow. We collected like the names of people's pets, and we were, and I don't know if we actually did it or only talked about it, but we sent, we talked about sending a postcard to the pet of the students.

[00:40:44] Oh, with like a. Like, so, so at this institution, the president had two dogs and they were very popular and they were always out on campus. And so it was from those dogs saying like, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark. And then like a translation [00:41:00] of, you know, We know your, your person is looking at our school.

[00:41:05] We'll take good care of them. They'll get to aw, cut and scratch us and all that kind of thing. And I, I don't know if it was a good idea or a bad idea, cuz you know, it's so hard to measure the metrics on Right. Some of these things. But, um, I thought that was kind of like a fun way to maybe show a, like stand out in the crowd a little bit.

[00:41:24] But yeah, I feel like the Guinea pig like that, that's like a whole nother. Like level of animal 

[00:41:30] Denise Lamphier: to try to communicate with. I know, I know. And you know, it's, I mean, at least with dogs or cats, you can, like if you wanted to, you could probably send them some branded like over shirt, right? Yeah. They don't make small enough ones like that for a pig.

[00:41:45] Jaime Hunt: When I got to Miami, I had my, my. My baby tortoise. He was kind of a baby then, I think he was six months old and I was trying to buy like stuffed animal shirts to fit on him, to take pictures of him. It was very, very [00:42:00] challenging, but, but yeah, you never know what's gonna make something jump out. My college choice was a hundred percent my parents saying, this is where we will pay for you to go to college.

[00:42:09] Yeah. Like, cool, that's where I'm going to college. Right. But you just don't know like what, what are the decision factors and who's influencing and are they gonna like the pretty girl on the cover or not, like the pretty girl on the cover and all of that. As you've undertaken this project, what are some of the biggest lessons that you've learned or, or that you'd like to share with the audience?

[00:42:29] Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:30] Denise Lamphier: Um, well first of all, the number one thing, well, I have so many number ones, but, um, number one, number one A, right, a hundred percent. Uh, after literally looking at 5,228 emails, please spend some time on your subject. Blind writing folks, I will share with you my personal, uh, number one, I hated it the most.

[00:42:51] Um, uh, Uh, subject line and it was Today is your Deadline Top candidate. I've sent [00:43:00] that. No. No, you did not. I'm sure that, 

[00:43:04] Jaime Hunt: I'm sure my institutions, at least one of them has sent something like that. 

[00:43:09] Denise Lamphier: There was a lot of. Fake braggy or congratulatory things like top candidate is an example of ways that I saw colleges and universities try to, uh, deal with that in subject lines and in, in the content that they were were sending.

[00:43:24] And again, he saw right, right through that. As easy as it is to do, um, variable, um, mail merges even in emails these days, even in the subject lines. Yeah. You know why even it couldn't have been today is your deadline. Emory. Yeah. Um, but the deadline part is another, another thing that, um, I feel like it's important to talk about, um, because there were a lot of emails out of those 5,228 emails that focused on that, that theme of today's your deadline.

[00:43:55] We need this from you today as your deadline. And, um, what I [00:44:00] really, really hope, if anybody who doesn't hear anything else that I say today, um, I think a, a great lesson is, Those are our deadlines. They're not our student's deadlines. And so whatever we can do to actually be more prospective student friendly and thoughtful.

[00:44:17] I know we talk about the student journey and um, uh, creating, um, Uh, a cast of characters who we might mark market to on our storyboards. Um, but at the end of the day, we're still sending them information about deadlines that are important to us. They're our deadlines. They're not the student's deadlines.

[00:44:36] They just wanna go to prom this week or whatever. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, so, so something to, something to think about there. Um, I also, again, highly, um, encourage us all to work closely with our vendors if. We need to partner with them. And they're so valuable to the work that we do because a lot of us are working on short, um, staffs and there's not enough of us to go around and it's hard to keep up in a digital world.

[00:44:59] So we [00:45:00] need expertise, but there's things that we know better. Also because we're on campus and we know what our, what, who our students are. And um, so we need to make sure that they're hearing that. Um, I recently told a another colleague who was, um, working with a vendor who didn't wanna meet with them very frequently, and I'm like, they're your vendor if you wanna meet with them quarterly or monthly, or weekly, then.

[00:45:25] Um, they should want to meet with you that frequently and if they don't find another vendor mm-hmm. Um, and, and partner with them because they're gonna do better work for, for you and not treat you like a cookie cutter. Um, college if you will. Another, just quick highlight, Jamie, is I think, uh, when you can personalize your content.

[00:45:42] Manage your list. One story I can share from list management, my son who has grown up in Iowa and um, is, um, very tall and very white and not diverse. You know, received a piece in the mail from a college and [00:46:00] university inviting him, um, to, uh, come to campus on a multicultural, um, visit day. And because he was a multicultural student, Um, they would give him a scholarship and you know, in his journal he wrote, I'm thinking as a white guy, I'm not eligible for this.

[00:46:16] Right. Yeah. And so that was, that's a big miss. And it's as simple as just making sure your, your lists are, are clean. One college sent him two of the exact same postcards on the exact same day. They landed in our, in our mailbox. And yeah. And you know, Gen Z love 'em, but the environment's important to them.

[00:46:35] They don't want, they don't wanna see two pieces of the same thing on the same day. Cause they want better from us. Keep it authentic and focus on what you are good at as a, as a university. And it's not trees and buildings, right? Mm-hmm. And even on those scholarships that we talked about too, why should I come to campus to, um, visit?

[00:46:57] Is it, is it really the $4,000 scholarship? [00:47:00] Um, or. In the reverse of that, there was one college that offered him if he came to visit a $25 dad hat, um, or a fanny pack, his choice of for coming to campus to visit was a dad hat or a fanny pack. And, um, in his journal on that particular piece, he wrote, you know, round trip.

[00:47:19] That college is six hours away from my house. And I'm not that interested in them and a $25 dad hat or, uh, you know, I'm not spending that much time in the car for that. Yeah. And, and also like what, what does your university or college have to, to, to sell? Keep it focused on Yeah, on, on that. Because they do wanna know that my final one.

[00:47:42] And I hear this a lot, you know, there's, there can be tension a lot between admission and communication offices. They, SEMA ends with each other. And I have to tell you, the best work happens in a space where it's, um, collaborative and. Team oriented, and I was really [00:48:00] fortunate at Central. That's exactly how we approached it.

[00:48:03] I, we did a lot of really incredible things there because, um, we were on that journey together. We shared information. Um, we met every week at a designated time with an agenda based on a marketing plan. That was flexible because, you know, if things needed to change, we needed to change. You know, what's the data showing us in, in real life, in real time this week?

[00:48:28] Are we down on BASA filings? Do we need to tweak anything that we're doing? Um, how's our student demographic shaping up for the the next class? Do we need to tweak anything with that? I mean, those were the kind of conversations that we, we were having, um, amongst, um, Not just me and the vice president for enrollment, it was our, our team members all participating in this conversation and affecting change and making, um, a difference.

[00:48:56] And I, I can't tell you how much I felt like that. Really [00:49:00] mattered to the work that we were doing, and it just made it a lot more fun to do too. 

[00:49:05] Jaime Hunt: There's, I, I cannot even stress enough how amazing it is when you have a good relationship with enrollment management, right? And how you get those sparks that come together and it always feels good when they're like, oh, something's down in this area, and you can kind of.

[00:49:21] Be agile and come up with a, you know, a potential solution to help bring those numbers up or, you know, whatever. It's just, there's magic in there. And I, I hate when I hear about campuses where the, the C M O and the enrollment management, I know people don't get along. Right. Like, that's just, you're, you're both missing out so much 

[00:49:42] Denise Lamphier: and so are prospective students, right?

[00:49:44] Yeah. And, and the campus community. So, can't agree with you more. Yeah. Ego doesn't have a place in this. 

[00:49:50] Jaime Hunt: No, but unfortunately it often, often gets in the way. But, um, I feel really, really lucky. So, Denise, this has been [00:50:00] absolutely fabulous and hopefully very enlightening for people. If people are interested in learning more, where can they find you?

[00:50:07] Denise Lamphier: Probably the best place to find me is on LinkedIn. That's why I keep most of my professional comments and, and work right there. So, Reach out. I'd love to hear from you, and she's written 

[00:50:17] Jaime Hunt: a couple of articles, um, about this as well. I'm sure if you, you Google her name and you'll be able to find them. Um, it was for Hire ed Dive, is that right?

[00:50:27] Uh, yep, that's correct. Yeah. Yep. There, uh, there's two. Um, I actually, uh, Just completely devoured both of them cause they've really got into this on, on a really great level. Um, so yeah, so definitely reach out to Denise if you have any questions about that. If you have any questions for me. Um, as always, you can find me on Twitter at Jamie Hunt.

[00:50:48] I m c j a i m e h u n t i m C. I'm also on LinkedIn. I'm spending a lot more time over on LinkedIn these days. So hope to see you over there and as always, please use the [00:51:00] hashtag higher ed. CMO to engage in conversation about this, on either of those platforms. Denise, any last thoughts before we close? 

[00:51:08] Denise Lamphier: Uh, I think just keep fighting the good.

[00:51:10] Fight your work matters. Learn from it. And if something doesn't work like you had hoped, tr try again and. In a sea of materials, your whole livelihood does not matter on just one piece. That's, 

[00:51:24] Jaime Hunt: that's really, that's really good advice. Awesome. Well, thanks for listening everybody, and bust some of those silos.

[00:51:39] Denise Lamphier: Hey y'all, Zach Here're from Enroll five. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed C M O with Jamie Hunt. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and hit that follow and subscribe button below. Furthermore, if you've got just two minutes to spare, we would greatly appreciate you leading a rating and a review of this show on Apple Podcasts.

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