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Podcasts Fanatical Fridays Episode 51
How to Run a Stand-Up Meeting for Your Admissions Team That Doesn’t Suck
[00:00:00] MickeyBaines: Video, you know, you need it, you know, it's all but expected from gen Z at this point, but you've got no time and little budget. And your marketing department is two months late on those new program brochures. They promised. So [00:00:15] asking them to help with a video for get it. But what have been, you could be as simple as sending an email to a perspective.
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[00:00:43] MickeyBaines: You can bring your university [00:00:45] faculty and students to life by designing and engaging hyper-personalized and video first communications during. Increase applications increase, yield, and decrease melt with the power of good kind visit. We are good [00:01:00] kind.com forward slash to book a demo and see just how powerful video marketing can be.
[00:01:06] MickeyBaines: Show your face show you care. See the difference connection email@example.com forward slash enroll five. [00:01:15] If I'm giving a team direction and the team doesn't fully understand what it is I'm asking for, you know, they need to be asking me, how would you paint this clear for me? How do you give me the crystal clear instructions of exactly [00:01:30] what it is I am expecting and the outcome of something I'm asking for so that when they deliver that there's less confusion or less likelihood that I will not be exceedingly happy with with the deliverable or the outcome of what they produce.
[00:01:42] MickeyBaines: Welcome to phonetical Fridays, a weekly [00:01:45] podcast where I sit down with Mickey Bains, a principal at Kennedy and company, which is a higher education consulting firm to discuss the traits, the strategies and the tactics that separate the best enrollment management teams from the rest of the pack. I'm Zach boozy crews founder here at enrollment.[00:02:00]
[00:02:00] MickeyBaines: Enjoy the show
[00:02:13] MickeyBaines: How are you doing? My friend? Is that come [00:02:15] hanging in there? Spring has arrived. Yeah. Thank God. It's like 74 degrees right now. Is it? Oh, it's not quite as warm here in Pennsylvania, but I will tell you, I'm still wearing a sweater vest. I'm a sweater. Vest. Fiend are, I could [00:02:30] wear one every day of the week. I haven't had enough of them for that.
[00:02:32] MickeyBaines: And I'm not a fashion person. I just love to put her best for whatever reasons. Living and working in academia has something to do with it. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. There's just something like professor tutorial that's, you know, that. [00:02:45] I feel that way about it, maybe. Well, you look great that with your, your hipster looking glasses yeah, it's very nice.
[00:02:54] MickeyBaines: Let's see, this is being recorded. Folks. What you don't know is that this is, we played back to my family now Ralphie [00:03:00] from a Christmas story with these glasses. Oh, that's hilarious. Oh, that's good. I dunno. I, I, I love I, this, this, this, I think it fits my shape and my. I think they're great, Mickey. I think they're great.
[00:03:14] MickeyBaines: [00:03:15] So that'd be great. So what are we talking about? We talked about meetings today, meetings. Yes. A specific type of meeting. I know. You've you, you brought it up to talk about it. I probably referenced this over the past. How many episodes have we done now? This is our 51st episode, [00:03:30] 51st. So in the, probably in the first 25 or so I'm sure I referenced meetings.
[00:03:35] MickeyBaines: But, well, it's just been an episode talking about this. What we're going to be talking about more specifically is a certain type of meeting you call it the stand up. [00:03:45] I just use the name that was referenced in the book where I first was reading and studying about it. It's a book by Patrick Lencioni.
[00:03:51] MickeyBaines: People will know Mr. On it, because he w is most rooms. We're writing the book, the five dysfunctions of a team. And if you've not read it folks, it is a great book. He [00:04:00] writes them in the form of a business fable. So it's like a short story. That has learning to it. And then of course, at the end of the book, it does go into about the model, whatever it is we're talking.
[00:04:08] MickeyBaines: And this one the meetings is from a book called death by meeting, which boy, I think a lot of us will resonate with the title in and of itself. [00:04:15] It's also very much worth the read. I've probably read the book five times. I'll be. Do you, do you normally read books? Like, like how many, like, what's your stance?
[00:04:24] MickeyBaines: Do you read like your favorite books multiple times? I don't think I've ever read a book before. I've never read a book twice ever [00:04:30] really now. Oh, so I know tigress for a moment which is not what you would ever do in a standup meeting. Folks. Just say that now you don't have time for Dyke. A little insight that does not mean does not have enough time to digress like this.
[00:04:43] MickeyBaines: However, let's talk [00:04:45] books there. And I just was saying this with the client. There are a couple of books I will reread almost every year. At least every 16 months, I will read it. Two books that have, I would say from a book perspective have had [00:05:00] profound impact on me and in my life and work the first one.
[00:05:04] MickeyBaines: I'll just say not in order of preference, but just an order of which I read them. I probably read the book in 2003 or no, that's right. It probably 2004, 2005. Right. In that timeframe, Jim [00:05:15] Collins got. Okay. I've read that one once. Okay. And so and I think I've been around long enough in the bookstore on long enough, so we can call it a classic, which is pressing it on itself.
[00:05:24] MickeyBaines: Just from a leadership as a leader perspective of how to run a unit organization, [00:05:30] I was working directly in higher ed, not for a consulting company that, and so I don't want you hearing good degree to some book about business thinking that it's not applicable. And I will say it helped transform the vision and the.
[00:05:42] MickeyBaines: I took an and leading the unit I was [00:05:45] leading at the time and has had a lot that approach had a lot to do with our success. That felt very much how do you hone in to create the vision and the plan to execute on it? Lots of greatness and I read that one almost every Christmas between [00:06:00] Christmas and new years.
[00:06:00] MickeyBaines: And if I don't, the reason I don't is because I will substitute that for another gym. Because it's called beyond entrepreneurship, which was a textbook. He wrote, I think, in the nineties, but the last couple of years he came out with a version 2.0 a new edition of it. And so I might [00:06:15] substitute good degree for that.
[00:06:16] MickeyBaines: A lot of the concepts carried over. So there's that one. And the second one is Bernie brown does it. You've heard me tell her I heard before. And, and that one rising strong is the one I read the most. But I will substitute that one for dare to lead. I find dare to lead has a little bit more of an uses things I [00:06:30] can pull from it that I can really more easily apply.
[00:06:31] MickeyBaines: One of which might resonate with, as we talk about the meeting types and this is concept called and this was from dare to lead, but the concept has gone, you know, paint it clear for me. And so if I'm giving a team direction and the team doesn't [00:06:45] fully understand what it is I'm asking for, you know, they need to be asking me, how would you paint this clear for me?
[00:06:50] MickeyBaines: How do you give me the crystal clear instructions of exactly what it is? I am expecting and the outcome of something I'm asking for so that [00:07:00] when they deliver that there's less confusion or less likelihood that I will not be exceedingly happy with with the deliverable or the outcome of what they produced.
[00:07:08] MickeyBaines: And so and that is that's that's in that her book dare to lead and that one is really, I think, important. And so why don't [00:07:15] we just take that and say, wait, wait, one question before the segue. So. When you, when you say like reread these books, like, do you like, are you, are you like a note taker? Like a highlighter, like an annotator in your books.
[00:07:26] MickeyBaines: Okay. So do you, do you like get a new copy [00:07:30] every year? Or are you you you're using no. Say no. Yep. So he's grabbing a book for his bookshelf and you can see all the little places where I marked it in here. And so I might take notes in the very back of that. [00:07:45] Sometimes I'll take them in the margin somewhere.
[00:07:46] MickeyBaines: I was just, in fact, I was just looking at this book yesterday. So I've got somewhere in here, a series of notes and I was looking and I will re date my note. So I pull, I don't need a ref, but I will date my note of the. When I'm reading it so I can know what my thought [00:08:00] processes was. That is I'm thinking about it differently because sometimes the note and the thought process changes.
[00:08:05] MickeyBaines: Sure. Well, that's what I was wondering if you got like a new copy every year, because then you could compare like, Ooh. So are the things I underlined year before versus yeah. Okay. And so I do that [00:08:15] and then I will, in addition to that, when I'm reading it, sometimes the thought I have in mind about. How the clients could apply it versus how I can apply it running the business.
[00:08:26] MickeyBaines: So there's two different use cases for certain things that I'll read. And so I need to [00:08:30] identify in the book what it's for. And usually I can read the note and tell what it's for, but if I'm just doing a quick search, how would, how would I think about a client doing this? I'll have to, I know I can easily find those notes about it.
[00:08:40] MickeyBaines: But boy, these are, those are two just great books. Okay. All right. Well, Hey, I've [00:08:45] read. Good to great. But I have not read beyond entrepreneurs. Yes. So I might have to add that to my list. Yellow cover is called bee 2.0, you see, I've got a bunch of tabs in there too. Turning your business into an enduring great company, which is, you know, he's got good to great and built to [00:09:00] last.
[00:09:02] MickeyBaines: That was the concept really? I think here. Yeah, well, Hey Mickey, every, every time we talk, I learn something new about you. So this is, this is great. All right. All right. Give us, give us a segue, give us a [00:09:15] segue. So as we think about communication and we think about expectation and getting that clear. So, you know, a lot of this communication will happen electronically or in zoom electronically, meaning.
[00:09:23] MickeyBaines: Or in zoom, slack, that kind of stuff. But then we also have these meetings and it might be a zoom meeting today, or it might be hopefully [00:09:30] soon more face-to-face when we can. But the, the daily you call the stand-up, I call it the daily check-in, that's what Patrick Lencioni calls it an in depth meeting.
[00:09:39] MickeyBaines: And this is really intended to be a very short get the day [00:09:45] started meeting check in with your team. And so, and this is not necessarily. Required to have a daily check-in for every use case, you might be having a weekly check-in, which is fine, but the, the purpose of the daily one is a short sweet.
[00:09:59] MickeyBaines: And [00:10:00] to the point, some people call them standing meetings. I've got a client who has a standing meeting. That's 30 minutes long, and I'm telling you, standing meetings are not 30 minutes. Think about that. How many people want to stand in a meeting for 30 minutes, the whole purpose of a standing standup, the daily standup, they [00:10:15] call it the whole purpose of a daily.
[00:10:17] MickeyBaines: Is to be standing while you meet. And then daily check it. The standup, those are short 15, 20 minutes. No more than 2010 to 15 really is where you want this meeting to be, to [00:10:30] get started and then talk very specific, very, very specific. What is it we need to be doing today. Yeah. Yeah. We're not talking today is today's Wednesday.
[00:10:39] MickeyBaines: We're not talking about Friday. If we're talking about Friday right now, we're talking in a sense of this is [00:10:45] due Friday. This is what we need to be doing today so that we can do X tomorrow and have it ready for Friday. And if it's beyond that, you can't see that that's not focused on, you know, what is it we need to be doing today in accomplishing today to keep us on our mission and goal of what we need to accomplish this [00:11:00] week, which is a part of what we need to accomplish this month.
[00:11:02] MickeyBaines: And so it's breaking down that. And so if I'm asking if I have a deliverable, I need to provide on Friday and I'm asking my team to do something today for me, you know, when we're talking about painting it clear, what specifically [00:11:15] do you expect me to have to you at the end of the day? If it is it the full proposal and a full draft?
[00:11:20] MickeyBaines: Is it a component if I'm giving a task up to the. That requires about four hours of their time and I'm doing it the beginning of the day and they didn't have it on their calendar. [00:11:30] The likelihood that they had four open hours for it is not great. If there is, then I've got a capacity issue, I've got too much capacity.
[00:11:39] MickeyBaines: And I don't know anybody that listens that would be listening to this that would raise her and say, you know what? We've got that capacity just doesn't [00:11:45] exist. So what that is intended for is to say, look, I've got, that's great that we need to do this on Friday and I can help you make. I have an hour. So how do we figure out what I can give you at the end of the day to day that I can give that hour of time to so that it [00:12:00] is exactly what you need.
[00:12:01] MickeyBaines: And then I have to say, okay, well, here's what I need to have Friday. Here's what I need Thursday. Can you at least get this component done for me today? So I can review that, add to it. And then tomorrow we'll work on X, Y we'll work on X, Y, and Z. And [00:12:15] do that. That's kind of that component. The other thing you might be doing in your, in these daily chickens, the stand-ups, whatever you want to turn your call, this 15 minute meeting.
[00:12:24] MickeyBaines: What outstanding issues from yes. Occurred that needed decision, that [00:12:30] impact your day to day. How many people and this is audio and I can't see people, and this is all recorded as well. How many people could raise their hand and say, yes, I've got an email out to one or two or three people that need to give me a response before I can act.
[00:12:43] MickeyBaines: And that may take a [00:12:45] day or two or three or a week to get a response. This is where you don't say, Hey, I sent you five emails. You didn't reply to. This is, you know, yesterday I emailed you about this specifically, that impacts my day to day. I need an answer on this. This is how you get those quick [00:13:00] answers, quick discussion.
[00:13:01] MickeyBaines: And if for some reason you emailed an ask of me that I can't just give a quick answer, then we figure out how do we pause this delay, the deliverable, and what do we put in its place? Yeah. Yeah. Those are the types of things [00:13:15] you're trying to accomplish. It is very, very tactical. It's not strategic. They're there, if there's anything strategic about it, it's, it's prioritizing and determining if you shift something off so that you can give it the adequate time it needs.
[00:13:27] MickeyBaines: But other than that, it is very, very [00:13:30] tactical. And so if there's a service issue, if you're working with clients or if you're working with students, you know, I would use my daily check-ins to say, okay, these are the three student issues that we had come in in the last two days that are highest priority that are.
[00:13:42] MickeyBaines: What do we need to do to resolve it? What can we [00:13:45] get done today? And where does that leave us? And how do we communicate that to the student? Knock those out quickly rather than letting it hang, which only leads to more frustration by the student. Yeah. And, and then I would take as a leader of that group, what I want to learn from all [00:14:00] of those, what are the common things that are being asked of me?
[00:14:03] MickeyBaines: How do I move some of those to the point where they don't necessarily need to be. Or if it's a certain type of issue that comes up to routinely, or for students that concern, they have a problem they have, how do I solve it? [00:14:15] So it's not a problem that ever has to come to a daily standup. And so those are the other things as a leader, I'm going to take from that because I can pull back and look at what the topics are we're talking about to help grow the team.
[00:14:27] MickeyBaines: The routine questions that they need help solving are [00:14:30] for me, areas where I can help the team train and learn so they can own more of that responsibility to answer for them. And that's how I, as a leader, pull that information from those meetings. So how far, how long did I talk about that? [00:14:45] Yeah, that was a, that was a handful of minutes, but so much gold there, dude.
[00:14:48] MickeyBaines: Couple, a couple additional ideas and thoughts. So one of the things that I have, I I've always struggled to do standups well to, to lead them well, because. [00:15:00] It's hard to, I think, as, as the strategists who you're working on so many things at once, it's hard to sort of distill concisely. What is it that you actually need from your team today or in the next [00:15:15] week in order to bring about success?
[00:15:16] MickeyBaines: Like you, you, as the leader of that meeting need to do work ahead of time before that meeting, to make sure that you're asking the right questions, listening to folks. At the end of the day, deciding like which way [00:15:30] we're going to, you know drive the car. One of the things that I've recently started doing, which has been super helpful.
[00:15:36] MickeyBaines: So we don't, we don't my team and I don't have daily stand-ups we do a standup on Monday mornings and then Fridays at like 11:30 [00:15:45] AM. So not first thing Friday morning, but like, not like, you know, 2:00 PM, Friday, 1130 is like enough time where if you've got to shift priorities before the end of the day to get something done, you probably will be able to do so.
[00:15:57] MickeyBaines: But it's not early enough where it's like, [00:16:00] No one wants to, you know, Friday morning meeting at 9:00 AM. So th th that cadence has proved to be helpful, but one of the things I've started doing is I actually put together a three slide slide deck every week. And the [00:16:15] first slide on that slide deck. Just, what are we trying to accomplish this month?
[00:16:21] MickeyBaines: Like, it's literally the goals that we've, you know, they come from our strategic plan are come from, you know, our quarter quarterly plan, whatever it is. But I like to [00:16:30] reiterate like the three or four things that we're focused on. This month, these are our four goals. So I literally, and sometimes it's, this takes 20 seconds.
[00:16:38] MickeyBaines: My team might be annoyed by it, you know, month by week three here, but I literally back off of it. And this was said, don't back off that because I [00:16:45] work through someone has to know that and keep pushing and driving the team and keep that. Vermont go ahead. And even though it was, yeah, even though it's like a knowing, it's like, Hey, you know, we are trying to, you know to use you know, enroll Pfizer, for example, we have a subscriber goal, right?
[00:16:59] MickeyBaines: So it's [00:17:00] like, Hey, over the next month, these are the number of subscribers that we are trying to generate. And you know, I go through each of the three or four goals, then slide that's slide one, slide two is a review of, okay, this is what I am focused on this week. And it's literally a [00:17:15] table that we have in the.
[00:17:16] MickeyBaines: And in theory, everyone is supposed to, before the standup throw in like their priorities, what they already know that they have to do that week. And then what we do on slide two is during the meeting we discuss, okay, Hey, you know, we can see [00:17:30] everything that's on each other's plates for the week. What, if anything is no longer a priority?
[00:17:34] MickeyBaines: Is, is somebody just totally overwhelmed. And like, somebody has got nothing to do, right. That never happens. But in the off chance that it does, how do you reallocate. And it, as the, as the person leaving the meeting, it gives me a [00:17:45] sense of, oh, you know what? Hey yeah, Shane or, or pat. Or Tatyana, th this thing that you have on your list, like, it's, it's no longer a priority.
[00:17:53] MickeyBaines: Like the client, your partner got back to me. They said, Hey, we need like four more weeks on this thing. Sometimes people send me [00:18:00] emails saying, Hey, we need to delay like a project. And I just, I don't have the time. Right. I failed to tell my team that, Hey, this thing has been, that you thought had to be, you know, it was due next week.
[00:18:09] MickeyBaines: It's actually been pushed three weeks from now. Right? That th they weren't on the email or the, you know, the partner [00:18:15] responds and they forget to reply. All right. Stupid shit. Like that does happen. And this is the, this is the opportunity to be like, Hey, this is no longer like urgent and important this week.
[00:18:24] MickeyBaines: Right. That's the second side. The third and final site is just a big question where I [00:18:30] say, who needs help. Right. And that's an opportunity for anyone quickly to be like, Hey, you know what, to your earlier point. Zach, you never responded to me about this, or, Hey, you know what? I am super, I'm drowning this week.
[00:18:43] MickeyBaines: These three projects that I have are [00:18:45] just taking way more than I thought this fourth thing. There's no way I'm going to get to is can anybody else take this on for me? Right. So, and this, this simple, simple slide deck has not like revolutionized how we work, but it's been incredibly [00:19:00] helpful in focusing how we work.
[00:19:03] MickeyBaines: So a couple of things. One of the reasons you struggle with that with, with the daily tactical is, is from, from using again, the Patrick Lencioni's model. There [00:19:15] is what you've done is combined two different types of meetings. And that's why you're struggling a little bit. Yeah. And so the, the, the slide deck with the, with the goal.
[00:19:23] MickeyBaines: Isn't one that you would reference in a daily check-in. That would be what he would call the weekly tactical meeting. [00:19:30] And that's slightly different in a weekly tactical meeting. I'm going to go, everybody gets 30 seconds to 45 seconds around the room. This is what I have this week. And that sets really the agenda and the tone for the rest of the.[00:19:45]
[00:19:45] MickeyBaines: To work out those details. The other thing is, as folks say, Hey, I really I'm slammed. I can't handle this. How do I that's the daily check-in because that's where that comes out to say, Hey, because otherwise we don't know until 11 that morning or five in the afternoon that something, [00:20:00] someone had other priorities come up that prevented them from getting done what they needed to get done that day.
[00:20:04] MickeyBaines: And at that point it's too late to resolve or fix that. And so the daily check-in is intended to be somewhat early in the day, so that you point that out and you have. Pivot and correct [00:20:15] as necessary for the remainder of the day. And that's why it's like 15 minutes, the weekly tactical again. That's where you say, okay, we're going into this week.
[00:20:22] MickeyBaines: It's the second week of the month. This is where we ended up with our results. This is again, a reminder of what we're trying to accomplish this month. We are behind, [00:20:30] or we are ahead. This is what we're going to do this week to ensure that we stay ahead. What do we have on our agenda round round, Robin real quick, 30, 45 seconds around the room.
[00:20:38] MickeyBaines: And that's how you, that's the difference now that that's why like the daily chicken, everyone doesn't need a daily. Check-in your, your [00:20:45] activities. Aren't that focused enough you know, if you're planning. And you've got weeks and months to do a lot of your work. And you're just got a little bit do every day.
[00:20:53] MickeyBaines: If you miss it, you can catch up. If what you're trying to do is, has to be done today or tomorrow, or this [00:21:00] week has to be, then that's a little bit more important where you were to discuss that. So you might find you have a weekly tactical and one daily check-in that's really once a week, that progress.
[00:21:10] MickeyBaines: Right. So I used to, when I, when I have a team working if I'm doing like a. [00:21:15] Project where I'm having to pick up and rebuild a team. And they're, they're not the, it's not their bad employees or bad workers. They just aren't efficient. They aren't sharing a lot of this. So what we will typically do is, okay, here's what we want to do this week.
[00:21:26] MickeyBaines: We had that meeting on Wednesday. I'm sorry. On Monday of the week, this is what we're trying to [00:21:30] accomplish this week. I have a, follow-up usually Wednesday, midday, or Thursday morning at the latest, so we can say, okay, here's what we need to get done this week around. Tell me your specific list of what's done.
[00:21:42] MickeyBaines: What's not done. What's in progress. What's in [00:21:45] danger of being done. And then that way we can have a midweek progress checkup to say, yes, I'm there. No, I'm not there. And figure out how do we then pivot for the rest of the week. If I try to do that every day of the week, then that throws him way off.
[00:21:58] MickeyBaines: Accustomed to that [00:22:00] typically. And so that's why I do two weeks. So it's really a daily, I mean, a weekly tactical and then a mid-week check-in, that's very short, so we can start identifying. And that also begins to change that team's understanding of expectations because usually [00:22:15] in that scenario, no, one's definitely not.
[00:22:17] MickeyBaines: They rarely have done weekly tacticals and they definitely haven't done midweek. And, and, and if they have, it's been like, oh, it's okay. It's not big of a deal. And it's, sometimes it's not a big deal, but if you've got four non big deal, things that are being postponed, that becomes a [00:22:30] big deal. And so that's where we get all that on the table.
[00:22:33] MickeyBaines: And we start saying, Hey, we got. Small things that need to be postponed. We can't do that. What do we need to prioritize? So we can get these two done and then we can hold for the other two for next week. And by the way, [00:22:45] when we do this next week, we're going to have six to get done next week, not four, and we can't postpone any of them.
[00:22:50] MickeyBaines: Yeah. And so that's, you know, that's where you're starting to give that expectation. And sometimes that routine conversation needs for the team so they can start building the [00:23:00] momentum and the habits that they need to ensure that the. Steamrolled task. Yeah. Two, two questions for you, because I feel like this is where I see folks run into issues and you know, by folks I may or may not be may or may not mean myself.
[00:23:13] MickeyBaines: Number one is, so [00:23:15] what happens sometimes when you do the low 30 to 45 seconds, a person quick little overview. This is where I got my plate. You hear people say things like. Yeah. So I've got to, I've got this report, like, yeah, I'm going to try to get this done today and yeah. You know, I've got [00:23:30] this and I've got some of thing that I'm also going to try to get, to get people, people use try, they, they talk a little bit about like, you know, I, I'm hoping, I'm hoping to get to this today.
[00:23:39] MickeyBaines: You know, and then because it's only 30 to 45 seconds, like the facilitator [00:23:45] of the meeting or the leader, or whoever is in charge of this. That doesn't really give you enough time to sort of like unpack, okay, wait by try. Or, you know, like, is there something in the way, is there friction, do you need more help?
[00:23:57] MickeyBaines: Is there a con like when is the appropriate [00:24:00] time to seek further clarity so that it's not just like the everyone's telling each other what they are trying to get to today, you know, and that around the room. Yeah. So that's how I use that in the weekly tactical. And [00:24:15] that's the very beginning and that sets the.
[00:24:17] MickeyBaines: Yeah for the rest of the meeting. And so I'm going to notate that. So there's, there's two ways that, that I would say answer this first. It depends on that person and how much relationship I built with that person in terms of my [00:24:30] leadership and coaching and mentorship to that person, because I may wait until after the meeting and I want to be sure that I'm pointing out the languaging.
[00:24:37] MickeyBaines: So, and when you're going over the, your agenda of what you're trying to get done today, or this week, you use words like. Tri, [00:24:45] I think I believe a lot. And I, I appreciate that. That's your goal and your intent. But what I see on the backend is anytime you use that word, the likelihood of you completing that action is pretty low.
[00:24:57] MickeyBaines: And so when I hear that as a leader, I don't [00:25:00] have the same expectation that it's going to get done as you might for yourself. And what I want to be sure is that when you're calling these things out, I want to be sure that you and your colleagues all have faith. That when you saying today, I'm doing this.
[00:25:11] MickeyBaines: I will get this done. And sometimes it, they [00:25:15] can buy in real quick and sometimes it takes a longer period of time. And then I need to start talking to them. If it takes a long period of time to say, look, you said you wanted to do this, it didn't get done. Now I want you to just be sure you understand the impact of that because now two of the people are.
[00:25:27] MickeyBaines: And now they've got a rush to get it done because you didn't get your [00:25:30] piece done first. And then I want to come back and say, you know what? We didn't get the promotional materials up for this event in time because of this our attendance, our, our signups were down 15% compared to normal. If we do this every event from here on out and have 15% fewer people.[00:25:45]
[00:25:45] MickeyBaines: Dramatic impact on our ability to enroll the number of students. So we can't do that. We need to be sure that we're not thinking where we get it done. We are getting it done. So I'll do that. And then the second thing is in the meeting. If I already have that rapport built, once they call that out and I've got the agenda, I'm [00:26:00] going to circle back and say, okay let's talk about the event you were talking about.
[00:26:02] MickeyBaines: You, you used the word hope what's the likelihood that's not going to get done today because that's gonna impact Tracy. And I want to be sure that Tracy has what she needs to do tomorrow. So what does it, what does it, the likelihood is if, if [00:26:15] your day goes from here on out to the end, that it what's the likely it's going to get done.
[00:26:18] MickeyBaines: If that's not incredibly high than what do we need to pivot on so that you can get it done today? What do we pull off the plate? Yeah. And then the third thing I would say in terms of back to the coaching and mentorship, because I've [00:26:30] had this, I hear this all the time. I don't have the time. I don't have the time.
[00:26:35] MickeyBaines: And so let's look at what your role in your job is. And let's look at how you're spending the time. And we've talked about this before, how I color code the calendar. This is why I color code the calendar. Because if I [00:26:45] don't have time, I need to understand how I'm spending my time to know, is this a real priority or is it not?
[00:26:50] MickeyBaines: And if it is what is less priority, less of a priority in my calendar that needs to be. And I would do that with staff that would tell me that over and over, I don't have time. Let's look at your [00:27:00] spending your time. Let's look at, you know, 30% is creating content. 30 to 30% is meeting with people, building out requirements and for meetings and plans.
[00:27:08] MickeyBaines: And I don't know the balance is something else. And this week I need you to focus on content, but realistically you're only spending six or [00:27:15] 10% of your time. We just said 30. What else did we pull out? What is. Given time when you're giving too much time to this week versus what you're not. And then you have those conversations say, look, you know, every week you need to be looking, are you giving 30% to content creation?
[00:27:29] MickeyBaines: You're not. [00:27:30] And that's why you're always behind in the content. You're giving 20%. It's okay to get 20% one week, but you have to give that 10% back on top of that 30% at some point to catch up. Otherwise you'll never catch up, even if you're 30% every other week. [00:27:45] Well, and that sort of answers my second question, which is.
[00:27:49] MickeyBaines: And I think, sorry if I cut you off here, but when when you, I think what you're saying is like the standup or the weekly tactical, whether you do just the weekly tactical [00:28:00] and like one check-in or you do a standup every day what you have to do as the leader is identify what are the follow-up meetings that need to happen that are not a part of the standup.
[00:28:09] MickeyBaines: So this is not the time to go do all this troubleshooting that you're just talking about. Like, You [00:28:15] have to, as soon as humanly possible, after that, after that check-in get time with Mickey and make sure that Mickey understands that, Hey, this, this has to get done this week. What do we need to do to move other things off your plate in order for that to happen?
[00:28:27] MickeyBaines: I think that it's very challenging and [00:28:30] tempting for most leaders to try to tackle all of that in, in the, in the standup. Cause it, it, it feels, it feels like I got to address this now. I don't have time for another 30 minute meeting later today. Like. I think w what you're saying, which [00:28:45] is very wise is like, Hey, keep the, keep the standup super sacred.
[00:28:50] MickeyBaines: It can't be more than this. It's really kind of this big FYI and then be incredibly diligent about as soon as humanly possible, getting those follow-up meetings scheduled and on the [00:29:00] calendar so that you don't lose time. Yup. And that's why I like to block 15. Let's try to keep it to 10 to 12. And if I need a quick followup, I have that room in that schedule for that.
[00:29:11] MickeyBaines: The other thing you might say is if it's an individual person, but a lot of times it [00:29:15] might be involved, several people that something else we just identify in the, in this chicken that something else has come up, that's really, we're really all schedule and we've got to all right, so let's have 15, when can we have 15 to 30 minutes?
[00:29:27] MickeyBaines: Bef before lunch to get this addressed [00:29:30] so that we know what we should be expecting to end of the day and how we're going to be pivoting more like you, you can't let things go unanswered like that. And it gives you an opportunity to force yourself to have the conversation, but then you still have the push to have the conversation.
[00:29:43] MickeyBaines: And if you're not used to it, [00:29:45] it's uncomfortable. And it's easy to avoid the things that are uncomfortable, whether it's conflict, whatever it is that we, we, we avoid those things that are uncomfortable to us. That's just natural to do. But if you force yourself to have that time on the calendar, [00:30:00] you're either going to waste everybody's time, but hopefully you have it in your forces to have to have it.
[00:30:04] MickeyBaines: And you push yourself because if you find you have the dealer, chickens and things still aren't getting done, that's so new as the leader of that. To ensure that, you know, and, and if you're a participant in a meeting and our leader in the meeting, you're [00:30:15] still not getting things done. And it's because other people aren't giving you things, then your job on the daily check-in is to say, look, you know, I've got this due today.
[00:30:21] MickeyBaines: I also have to do what was due yesterday. I didn't get done, but I also didn't get the information I needed to get the. That's the kind of call that out to say, here's a routine [00:30:30] problem we need to address. And if you, if it waits, so the weekly tactical for the next week, that's potentially fine. But that's where you start calling it out.
[00:30:37] MickeyBaines: This is a very tactical meeting. That's why they call it the weekly tactical or the daily standup, because it was very much what we're doing right [00:30:45] now. Yeah. Yeah. I have an idea that I think I'm going to try this week. It might have this conversation because. We, so we use HubSpot, that's kind of that's our, the CRM that we use, but I'm sure you can do this in literally any CRM that our listeners use.
[00:30:58] MickeyBaines: After after [00:31:00] that, the weekly tactical meeting, I'm thinking like you, you take five minutes, you have an email template already set up in your CRM. You go in and you write down, Hey, these are the four things that we talked about or whatever it is, four weekly goals for the team. And then you [00:31:15] schedule an automated message to go out Wednesday at 11:00 AM or whatever it is.
[00:31:20] MickeyBaines: And it's just a, it's an automated message. It sends out, Hey, it's Wednesday at 11:00 AM. Halfway through the week. These were what we set out as the weekly priorities. Yes. You've had, maybe you've [00:31:30] had stand-ups in between or not, but I feel like that automated email that looks different, right. It's branded.
[00:31:36] MickeyBaines: It's not like, you know, Zach following up or, or another team member falling up. I wonder what that will do to help just like focus the team of like, oh, wow. [00:31:45] Yes. Okay. Have I made any progress on my weekly objectives or not? So I'm gonna try that this week and see how it goes. And I think that's a very good step to do so.
[00:31:54] MickeyBaines: I, and it also depends on how often do you meet with individuals with that as well? [00:32:00] Like your team members. As individual staff folks. So I currently with, with my team meet, like most of us are meeting like one-to-one every other week. I've had some staff in the past when I've been on an enrollment team, kind of rebuilding a team.
[00:32:12] MickeyBaines: I might have some staff members I meet with for [00:32:15] 30 minutes, twice a week. Sometimes I may be 30 minutes a week and then eventually slow down. But it's it's to build those habits. The other thing I'll point out as you talk about the, the goals. So the third meeting. Is the monthly strategic, and that's really the first one that really gets into [00:32:30] to strategic thought.
[00:32:30] MickeyBaines: And that's where you put up, you know, today is March 25th and we're getting ready to go into April. Here is we're going to spend, and this is not a 30 minute meeting. This could be a 90 to 120 minute meeting. This is what we're going to focus on. These are our goals. We want to [00:32:45] do X amount of subscript subscriber growth in the coming month.
[00:32:48] MickeyBaines: This is what we know that we have coming. Duke, will this get us there or not? Do we need to add something to this mix? If so, do we add it, take something else out. Do we edit on top of, and how do [00:33:00] we fit that in to get this done? And if we added in, what do we need to be doing each week to get. And yeah. And that's your monthly strategic and the fourth meeting cause you referenced this a moment ago is, is the quarterly meeting.
[00:33:12] MickeyBaines: And that's where you're starting to plan out. It could be the full year at the [00:33:15] end of the year, but it's also playing out. This is what we need to accomplish for the quarter. And then you'd have your monthly just talk about, okay, this is in order to hit the quarter. This was when did this month and this is what we need to do each week to hit this month.
[00:33:24] MickeyBaines: And so those are the four meeting types. I know I'm at a roll of Phi and DD that [00:33:30] you have. Those quarterly meetings. You, you, you are pretty good with your leadership meetings. You meet, I believe from our conversations. You're like you guys meet a lot and that's, I think really important and should be done.
[00:33:40] MickeyBaines: And then you, as, as individual unit leaders, you take back your [00:33:45] strategic efforts by month and by quarter, that will then contribute to the overall company's success. But you take that back and then you have to deploy that. And then the weekly is to ensure you're doing what you need to do on a monthly.
[00:33:55] MickeyBaines: And then the daily is sure what you're doing on a weekly basis. My last, my last comment on [00:34:00] this before we, before we wrap Nikki, is you want to read the book? Well, yes, I want to read the book, but I was I was having a conversation with a higher ed leader the other day, and they were talking about how they've got, you know, teams coming back on campus and how, you know, people have [00:34:15] obviously mixed feelings about that.
[00:34:16] MickeyBaines: And one of the things that they were noticing, which I think it was just a really interesting insight is. Now that a big argument for many folks has been like, Hey, we need to be on campus so we can be we're wearing, if you're in a hired marketing and enter even an [00:34:30] admissions role, like there's a lot of creativity involved in like, there's a lot of like group collaboration involved in, in the, in the work that you're doing.
[00:34:37] MickeyBaines: And it's been harder to be creative and to collaborate in remote contexts. And I, I totally see that, but what they were saying, [00:34:45] well, this individual sandwich that was super insightful. There's this elevated pressure. Now that we're having people come back to campus, like our in-person meetings, people are like very critical.
[00:34:56] MickeyBaines: They're paying a lot, like the question that they're asking themselves as they leave the [00:35:00] meeting is could I have done this on zoom? You know, and interesting. And, and, or was, was, was it actually more valuable that I was in person for this, for this chat? Right. And I actually think that that's incredibly wise.
[00:35:14] MickeyBaines: I think the question [00:35:15] we should all be asking ourselves to. How do we constantly just move the needle, even marginally on getting better with meetings? It is, it is so hard. It's both an art and a science. It takes time, but I think like when you, when you've left a good meeting, [00:35:30] You feel really great, like, and there are, there are like people that are incredible at leading meetings and I have mad respect for them, but there's nothing quite like leaving a meeting, feeling like you got what you came for.
[00:35:43] MickeyBaines: You understand what you need to be [00:35:45] focused on. You understand how this fits into the larger context of an organization. An organization has goals and there's nothing quite like that. I think that buys continual buy-in and trust from your. Well, let's, I'm just going [00:36:00] to circle right back to the book.
[00:36:01] MickeyBaines: That's why it's called death by meeting, because often we feel that way, you know, and when I was in higher ed, I had this feeling a lot about committees. You know, you had these committees, what is it we are meeting to accomplish as a committee, as a committee [00:36:15] for this year. And in this particular meeting, working towards what we need to do this year.
[00:36:19] MickeyBaines: I always felt that way. And I didn't hadn't even read the book at that point, but that, I think that's important. So as a, as a, as the person leading the meeting, Hey, do you feel that. When you leave the meeting, kind of what you're just [00:36:30] describing and B, are you sure that the participants of the meeting are leaving feeling the same way?
[00:36:35] MickeyBaines: Yeah. That that's, that's critical that you're not just thinking about what you're getting out of it. Think about what the participants are getting out of it. And, and if you, if, if nothing else, if you do none of this and you're like, oh, [00:36:45] I'll go. I think I'm going to try and do this step before you invite anybody to your next meeting, or if it's already scheduled before you even think about walking.
[00:36:54] MickeyBaines: What are two things you need to have accomplished when you walk out of the meeting [00:37:00] for yourself and for that team. And if it is for yourself, what's the relevance to the other people in the team so that everyone has a reason to be there. What is the relevance? Because you might find, yes, this meeting was required, but was it required for everyone?
[00:37:14] MickeyBaines: Yeah. Yeah. [00:37:15] Is it just so that they can be. Or is it because they need to contribute and it's sometimes helpful to have someone to be a part of a meeting so they can be in the loop. Some people want to be that way, but that, you know, it depends on what you had to do to your day to get the meetings. And as we were talking earlier about how are you [00:37:30] spending your time?
[00:37:31] MickeyBaines: You know, you might be spending two and a half hours in meetings that you shouldn't be a part of. Sometimes we can control it. Sometimes we can. And if you can't control it, the least you could do is also potentially go to the leader of that meeting. Say, look, you guys in these meetings every week, every month, [00:37:45] I'm not able to contribute, what can I contribute to make this more helpful?
[00:37:49] MickeyBaines: Or is it better that I just don't need to attend that. We agree on, want me to attend? And I will make the commitment to read the meeting minutes to listen in at some point, whatever, or maybe I just need to come to whatever every other meeting [00:38:00] and have that conversation. And hopefully that will give you the leeway you need to not attend.
About the Episode
The what's what...
On this week’s episode of Fanatical Fridays, Zach and Mickey unpack how to run better meetings. Mickey pulls a couple of frameworks he uses from Patrick Lencioni’s book, Death by Meeting, and Zach shares a few lessons he’s learned about the best (and worst) ways to facilitate group brainstorms.
Fanatical Fridays is brought to you by Enrollify. Enrollify is where higher ed comes to learn new marketing skills, discover new software and services, network with the best minds and find their next gig.
You can connect with Zach on LinkedIn or Twitter and Mickey on LinkedIn.
About the Podcast
Zach is the Founder of Enrollify. He thoroughly enjoys building new brands, developing and executing content marketing strategies, and hosting podcasts. When he's not working on Enrollify, he enjoys discussing life's quandaries over coffee (or a good bourbon) with friends, building Sponstayneous (his travel brand side hustle), trying out new HIIT workouts, and adventuring across the globe with his wife!
Mickey Baines leads the technology services practice at Kennedy & Company. Kennedy & Co assists colleges and universities in the selection, implementation, customization and integration of various CRM technologies, including Salesforce, TargetX, Slate and others. They lead projects of all sizes for public and private two and four-year institutions. Whether he's working hands-on in an enrollment strategy project, leading a CRM implementation or speaking at a conference, the goal is the same - to help higher ed professionals implement technologies, strategies & tactics that engage and enroll more students.
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