Inclusive Strategies for Marketing to International Students

Full Transcript

Enrollify_TheApplication_Audio_Ep20(S2E8)_KinSejpal_Version1

[00:00:00] Allison Turcio: Welcome to the application, the go-to How-to podcast for higher education marketers. I'm your host, Allison Teo, assistant Vice President of Enrollment and Marketing at Sienna College. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out, this podcast is packed with practical tips and actionable advice to help you elevate your marketing game.

[00:00:29] In each snackable episode, we bring in experts to share their insights and experience on the topics that matter most. To you got a question or idea you'd like us to cover? Email team enroll i.org or reach out to me on Twitter or LinkedIn. The application is part of the Enroll I podcast network. And if you like this show, you'll definitely wanna check out our other Higher Ed focus podcasts on admissions, tech, marketing, and more.

[00:00:56] They're packed with stories, ideas, and tools to help you be the best in your field. [00:01:00] All right, it's time for the show.

[00:01:13] I am so excited to have Kin Sage Paul as our guest today. Kin is the Vice President of Marketing and communications slash Chief Marketing Officer at University of Redlands, where she oversees brand management, enrollment, marketing, and communications. And digital teams. There were probably 10 topics that I wanted to talk about with kin today, but the focus today is going to be on marketing too, and recruiting international students and kin has personal experience that I know will be invaluable for all of us to hear.

[00:01:45] I'm so excited to have you on 

[00:01:46] Kin Sejpal: Kin. I'm so excited to get a chance to not only talk about this topic, but also talk with you, Alison. Oh, 

[00:01:55] Allison Turcio: thank you. Let's start with sort of the big idea. Why is marketing [00:02:00] two and recruiting international students important for higher ed institutions 

[00:02:05] Kin Sejpal: as universities? You know, how many universities do you know that talk about being.

[00:02:11] Or creating, um, global citizens or citizens of the world, right? And, uh, solving problems of the world and solving pressing issues, which by the way, are not just issues of one country. Um, they are issues faced by many. And no matter what the career trajectory ends up being of our graduates and of our alumni, chances are they will be working or interacting with.

[00:02:40] Or alongside people that are from different backgrounds and cultures, including different countries. So, It's almost incumbent upon us to prepare our students to deal with and understand the international landscape and what better way to do that than [00:03:00] providing a holistic international education program, which by the way, doesn't just confine it to mobility of international students coming here, but a really deeper level of.

[00:03:12] International education that goes beyond mobility and then hopefully seeing the outcomes of that in what the students end up producing or doing as part of their journey in lives and improving the world as a result of everything that they have learned alongside people of different backgrounds and cultures through their education.

[00:03:39] Yeah, so it's 

[00:03:40] Allison Turcio: really, it's not just about marketing and recruiting here. It's about a total experience, the student experience. 

[00:03:47] Kin Sejpal: Oh, absolutely. I mean, experience trumps everything, right? I mean, it's. Even if you talk about adult learners or if you talk about non-traditional students, or [00:04:00] if that's the term, I'm not a fan of that term, but I'll, I'll use it because that's an industry term, but no matter what type of student you're trying to attract, it's not about just attracting them.

[00:04:12] It's about the, the experience of what they encounter, whether it's academically or experientially in terms of. What is the, what is the, what is the brand promise, right? Like that we talk about that so much. It's not about the message only. Yes, it's about what it is that we are doing to fulfill the promise that we made to our students and the type of education that they're gonna have.

[00:04:41] Yeah, 

[00:04:41] Allison Turcio: I'm a firm believer that the student experience is the number one marketing opportunity. It's not what we're saying in our ads. It's not our social media presence. It's not our logos. It's really truly the student experience. So can you tell us a little bit about your experience as an 

[00:04:59] Kin Sejpal: [00:05:00] international student?

[00:05:02] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, there's, there's a lot to my story, but I guess I can start a little bit with the fact that I'm not the only one in my family to have an international education in the United States. Um, I have some friends and cousins and my, my husband and others who've also been through a US education.

[00:05:29] Uh, while having been, you know, after being brought, born and brought up in India or a different country, um, I have friends from all over that I have made thanks to the education that I've gotten here. But my journey has been really more. It started more at the postgraduate level. So at the master's level, I got my master's in communication, um, as an international student.

[00:05:57] And that was at the nudge of a professor because [00:06:00] I started with a bachelor's degree, even though I had a bachelor's degree in India. And I felt like I wasn't equipped to do a master's degree here because the bachelor's degree in India and the bachelor's degree here was very different. And so I started out actually in the Undergrad PRO program and thought I might have you to get my bachelor's again just to level up.

[00:06:24] And she was like, no, you, you need to go into the grad program. You already have a bachelor's and you can take some undergrad courses if you feel like you need to round that out. But. And so if it wasn't for supportive faculty like her, Melanie Morgan, if you're listening, um, then I wouldn't have started with a postgraduate program.

[00:06:50] And so that's, that was the beginning and. I guess, um, as I was learning and studying, a lot [00:07:00] of my practical experiences during the program ended up being doing communications work for the university where I was studying, so for Purdue University. So a lot of my. Internships and graduate assistantships.

[00:07:15] Were doing some brand projects and, and research projects for, say, the School of Veterinary Medicine at Purdue or, and things like that. And then I got very interested in that and as they say, the rest is history. Wow. 

[00:07:30] Allison Turcio: Your experience as a grad student really set you on this career path then. 

[00:07:35] Kin Sejpal: I guess so. I mean, I knew I was in that, I was in a field, uh, of, of communications and I knew I wanted to broaden that to be marketing and communications.

[00:07:45] What I didn't know at the time was if it was gonna be higher education for life kind of thing. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess, uh, I fell in love and uh, here I am. How 

[00:07:59] Allison Turcio: do [00:08:00] international students typically decide to study outside of their country, and how do they choose what universities that they'll apply to? 

[00:08:09] Kin Sejpal: It's so difficult because a lot of them can dream it, but they can't do it, right?

[00:08:13] Mm-hmm. It is one of those situations where it's so circumstantial too, depending on where you were born and. What the policies are and what type of environment you are brought up in and what is the overall appetite and. Stigma or lack thereof for studying in particular parts of the world or studying in general?

[00:08:42] Um, you know, not every country or around the world has the opportunity to pursue, um, education formally, especially for women or some people with certain religious affiliations or what's not. And, and I don't wanna generalize that, but that's certainly a [00:09:00] component of it for those who do have the privilege.

[00:09:03] To make a choice. I think for them it is about a lot of factors, and again, I can draw on some of my personal experience too, but as somebody who's worked with international students, so I just have to level set a little bit about my credibility here too. Um, you know, doing a lot of international. Work outside of my regular work informally and as a volunteer.

[00:09:30] So I had established a nonprofit called Kinship, where I was helping international students, um, navigate the career process in the United States. I did that for a few years. Um, and then I volunteered a lot with, uh, Global organizations, um, that, uh, particularly work with international students. And so this is outside of, of my day job, if you will, but obviously as part of our day [00:10:00] jobs, we know that this is one important segment that we work with, a lot of us work with.

[00:10:05] So in terms of the choice, um, that students have to make, it's really. First of all, not just a student choice, because now you are not only talking about, I mean, financial component is a huge piece of it, obviously, but the whole safety piece of it is something that the whole family is very much involved in.

[00:10:28] And concerned with. And so why study abroad? What is the benefit? Is it worth the risk of, you know, all the things that come with somebody moving all the way to a far away country, assuming it's a far away country? I mean, if you're talking about from Canada to the us, I mean that might be, have some different, um, parameters there, but you know, it's um, in terms of choice, there are some things that just are.

[00:10:58] Pretty [00:11:00] standard when it comes to costs, you know, career opportunities, location, weather, reputation, et cetera. But I think the added layer that. We really have to speak to, and we know that is, is the idea of safety, the idea of community, um, the idea of support system, all of which is not also a one size fits all is also what I wanted to make sure I mention is, you know, it's, again, if you're coming from some, from a western country or an eastern country, um, coming from a.

[00:11:41] Individualistic culture or, or collectivist culture where the families are really part of your decision versus not. You know, there's, there's so many way, so many things that play there. Or if you are coming from a place where you will have a lot of people who already come from that place [00:12:00] and so you can network and ask them, versus you are a trailblazer for your own, you know, those types of decisions can really skew or vary.

[00:12:10] The types of thoughts that go into what it is that you wanna do and how you wanna get there. Agents and referral sources, you know, those are huge in some, again, in some areas, not others. And you know, people have. Relied on them for trusted information and they're trusted counselors. It's not too dissimilar to your counselors that you have here.

[00:12:34] Yeah. So yeah, again, it's a lot more nuanced, but it's also varied by different parts of the world. I want to quickly 

[00:12:44] Allison Turcio: interrupt this conversation to invite you to join me at Element four 50 ones Engage Summit on June 27th through 28th in Raleigh, North Carolina. When it comes to the student experience, we know that you wanna be a trusted guide [00:13:00] from recruiting to graduation.

[00:13:02] The Engaged Summit by Element 4 51 brings the best minds in higher ed together to give you the strategy and tools to create a cohesive student experience from start to finish. Explore the latest technologies, increase your skillset, and gain insights into today's students so you can deliver the most personalized digital engagement experience every step of the way.

[00:13:28] This is not your standard ed tech user conference. This is a dynamic, inspiring, and empowering event for all higher ed marketers and admissions professionals. I'll be presenting at this event along with some of your favorite higher ed, LinkedIn and Twitter follows. You can learn more about this event and register at Engage to Element four 50 one.com Oh, and get $50 off your registration when you use the discount code and Rolly 50 at checkout.

[00:13:59] See you there.[00:14:00] 

[00:14:03] So, given that it's not one size fits all, And it sounds like word of mouth is hugely important here. What are the implementa implications for marketing practice then? 

[00:14:17] Kin Sejpal: Oh, there's so many. I mean, it's, first of all, it's, it's really about understanding your true international student experience, right? I mean, we started the conversation with that.

[00:14:27] Do you have what they're seeking when it comes to the support system in the community and the infusion of international culture? Throughout your institution or do, is that really just limited to your immigration office? That helps with the paperwork, right? Yeah. And, and sometimes it's just the latter.

[00:14:47] And that is not a marketing message. That is something that we owe our students as a service, regardless. Basic, yes. That, yes, that's like the bare minimum. Just like you're providing housing [00:15:00] and, and food. So it's trying to, first of all, wrap your arms and head around all of that. If you don't know that, then you probably shouldn't be going out into the market.

[00:15:10] Um, again, saying things or, or messaging to things. Obviously your, your brand and, and your name and your awareness. I think those things matter. Um, why, and the added layer of messaging, you know, it's not that we are. Each institution's gonna be able to convince students about why studying here is important, but collectively we have to talk about the narrative of.

[00:15:43] Why studying the US matters? Because now the competition is not just other institutions, it's other countries, or it has been for a while, but now it's increasing. So the marketing implication now is, is beyond just your own [00:16:00] scope of work. It's about the industry. It's about talking about how we as, as a country can.

[00:16:11] Make this a place for you where you will thrive and not just survive, but thrive and, and then segmentation is, is so critical. And understanding how you wanna segment your different populations, I mean, You wanna get to a level of personalization too. But first, if you're not starting with segmentation, because we tend to, again, lump international students as one category, but can you imagine how big that category is?

[00:16:41] I mean it, if you put all the variables that go into that segment or into that population rather to create segments, you'd have. Like innumerable. And so how do you prioritize those? You know, where do you wanna focus? Is it what [00:17:00] level of study and things like that. But what part of the world? What are their cultural beliefs?

[00:17:06] What are some myth busting things you'll have to do? Um, and then they all have different channels by way, the ways in which even word of mouth works for them, right? It's, uh, word of mouth through social media. And social media looks different in different countries. Yeah. Agents and, and referral sources look different in different countries, so, They're enormous and the implications are enormous.

[00:17:29] Allison Turcio: We'll put it this way, we wouldn't, we wouldn't lump all the students we're recruiting in the United States into one bucket, 

[00:17:37] Kin Sejpal: but Exactly. 

[00:17:38] Allison Turcio: We might tend to do that for an international students, despite the diversity that is so clear among them. I was going to ask you, how can we be more inclusive of people from different cultures and CO and countries in our marketing and recruitment efforts?

[00:17:53] But it sounds like the answer is actually be more inclusive of those people on your [00:18:00] campus. Is that right? 

[00:18:01] Kin Sejpal: Yeah. I mean that's not a dissimilar from any inclusion efforts. Yeah. That we talk about. Yeah. It's actions before words. It's culture before message. Right. And, and with international students, when we talk about.

[00:18:16] Being inclusive of them. I think what we forget sometimes is the reciprocity component that the expectation is for them to assimilate into our culture, which is important and rightfully so, that. You know, we want to educate them on the US ways or our campus ways, or our state ways, or whatever it is that you are wanting to, um, help them understand.

[00:18:45] Um, but how much effort goes into understanding their ways, um, and trying to bring their thoughts and their perspectives into the domestic students environment. And [00:19:00] when they have some programs, um, cultural programs and things like that when, you know, how many people that are domestic are actually participating in those or going and engaging in those.

[00:19:12] So it, it works both ways. Um, and yeah, it's, you know, Calling them non-resident aliens, for instance, or foreigners or, and things like that. I think we also have to be cautious about language use and how we talk about them. And I mean, that's not our day-to-day lingo, but it might be on our website or somewhere else that we, um, or in our data that we show.

[00:19:38] And you know, those are ways that we, in academia might be talking about them, but, We don't wanna be labeled as such, right? We, we are, we understand we are international students. I think. Um, I know we do, but, um, the, you know, there's, I think language piece is also so critical because [00:20:00] one that's already a language barrier, and then you're gonna put the academic jargon over and above that.

[00:20:05] So there's, there's just a lot, uh, when it comes to inclusivity. Just learn people's names. You know, it's, uh, it's also even as something, sometimes as basic as that, um, a lot of, uh, students, especially from China and other countries, tend to create, uh, develop, um, formally an American sounding name. Yes. Or an American name, just for ease of process.

[00:20:33] Um, And, you know, I went from ary to kin and, and that was easier, uh, for people to say. I mean, it was, it was my nickname growing up, so I, you know, it just felt natural to go there. But I was tired of. People just mispronouncing it and at one, at some point that, you know, I didn't wanna be that, um, hey, can you do this kind of thing, uh, to [00:21:00] Hey, hey.

[00:21:00] Yeah, that's exhausting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I think at the bare minimum, learn the names and oh, and, uh, if you wanna really commit to it, then go all in and really think about what is the symbiotics. Experience that you're getting from international students and not just having them assimilate into your culture 

[00:21:24] Allison Turcio: as marketers, how can we help to break down some of those barriers that you're naming and help our campuses be more inclusive?

[00:21:34] Since culture needs to lead before message? 

[00:21:39] Kin Sejpal: Yeah, I mean, as marketers, I think just asking those poignant questions every time, right? Is, all right, let's, let's work on an international marketing plan. Alright, what does that look like? Who's your audience? You know, we know the, the basics of, of a marketing plan there, [00:22:00] but then doing some research, um, that hopefully is illuminating for everybody and.

[00:22:08] The decision making process, um, about, you know, let's sit down with some students and not, not just sit down with all international students at the same time, cuz they all have different experiences like I mentioned. And then, you know, break that down a little bit more. Um, you know, when we do surveys, when we do focus groups, we have so many segments of population that we, again, You know, have, okay it all, the international students said this and the domestic students said this, but that's as far as it goes.

[00:22:42] And I think we have the opportunity to really further ask and probe on those questions. Um, and then the, you know, in terms of strategy to really. Elevating it at a level where it becomes not just the [00:23:00] responsibility of the Office of International Relations or whatever it is called at your institution or the director of international recruitment and, and that's pretty much it.

[00:23:11] I think there. You know, if it is a priority, I think that marketers, especially those in leadership roles, can help elevate that as a priority and, and bring it to more conversations and talk about it. When it comes to hiring or you know, when the HR policies are created, or can we, can we raise those questions when marketing, when the brand.

[00:23:38] Campaigns are developed, right? Or the brand strateg is created. How many times have we asked like, will this translate into the outside, outside of the US world? Um, especially when, when there's some of the messages are not simple, um, that we come up with and [00:24:00] our creative concepts, you know, take some unpacking, right?

[00:24:04] I mean, I'm guilty of that myself, where, you know, The two institutions where we developed some brand work. You know, those were primarily focused on domestic students. Um, but those were, they should have been able to be translated. Um, and trans by translation, I don't mean like just literal translation in, in Spanish or, or whatever, but understood rather in other.

[00:24:33] Other way. So I think just being thoughtful about things that we developed that we know are gonna be more universal, um, and being thoughtful about the applicability and thinking about that segment of the population and speaking up on that, on their behalf, uh, where possible. I think. Uh, and if you don't have the expertise to do that, somebody will, and bringing that person in to [00:25:00] speak to that expertise, 

[00:25:02] Allison Turcio: those are.

[00:25:03] Such great tips. I can't wait to do some of them myself. So, wrapping up, I have one more big question for you. What is the very first step our listeners should take after they finish this podcast? Like what move can they make to better market, to better recruit, be more inclusive when it comes to international students?

[00:25:29] Kin Sejpal: I think if you work in at an institution, just get, get a good understanding of what your institution is doing, not just saying In this space. Yes, I think that would be a good place to start. I think I. Talking to, excuse me, talking to, uh, some as a marketer, especially understanding who are your faculty staff and student and alumni champions in this space that will [00:26:00] speak to the experience.

[00:26:01] Um, because, you know, if, if you are truly in that space, um, you probably have some success stories that you just haven't uncovered yet. Or you've featured them, but you just haven't known their career path or their, their life journey, rather. And so if you're, if you're talking about an alum who is doing great things, and the point of which you start that storytelling is typically from the point of where they, you know what program they studied in when they were at your school.

[00:26:33] Yeah. Take, pull that a little bit behind and then, and pull that a little bit back and see if you can uncover the, there's more to this. Like, this person came, where did they come from? And now where are they? And, and, and those types of things. And just identifying storytellers or advocates, or allies. Um, um, and testimonials I think obviously goes a long [00:27:00] way.

[00:27:00] I mean, I would share my story in a heartbeat, you know, if somebody asked, but I haven't been asked that often. And, and I think there are people who are willing to share. My husband, my family, all the people that I talked about that have been since been successfully employed or successful in their own careers, whether it's here or back in India or wherever.

[00:27:25] Um, they chose to go next, they. I mean, their stories are powerful. Yeah. And, um, the circumstances that they've overcome are even more impressive. And I think we can start there. Um, and then testing and testing with them a little bit. Testing with international students a little bit. Um, I would say a lot bit, but I, I would say if, since it's a first step, like just, just, just do a gut check.

[00:27:54] You know, how does this, you know, how does this work for them? Like, How, if [00:28:00] you are, if you're talking about an idiom and, and, uh, metaphors in your messaging, like those are things that don't always resonate, um, in different cultures and in, and languages. So, and then integration has to work both ways. So, so learn from them, um, teach them, but also learn from them.

[00:28:22] I love that 

[00:28:23] because 

[00:28:23] Allison Turcio: it's all connected. Because if we can find the people and share their stories, those people are also going to be willing to share their insights and their feedback about what we're doing in marketing and recruiting international students. So I think that's a great combination of advice.

[00:28:39] Spot on. Thank you so much for joining me, Ken. It was great to have you on the 

[00:28:45] Kin Sejpal: podcast. Thank you so much for having me. This is a topic I truly care about and I'm so excited and thankful that you chose to talk about this, and I appreciate it. 

[00:28:57] Allison Turcio: Well, I can't imagine this is the last [00:29:00] time I'm gonna be having you on this podcast because as I said in the beginning, there's just so much insight that you have that I'd love to share with the wider community.

[00:29:08] Thanks everyone who's listening for tuning in. If you found this information valuable, please subscribe to the podcast and share this episode with a friend or colleague who might also find it useful or get in touch with Ken. I love following Ken on Twitter. She has so many great insights and we'll get that up on her bio on the website.

[00:29:28] Thanks again.

[00:29:34] Zach Busekrus: Hey, I'll Zack here from Enroll fi. If you like this podcast, chances are you'll like other enroll FI shows too. Our podcast network is growing by the month and we've got a plethora of marketing admissions and higher ed technology shows that are jam packed with stories. Ideas and frameworks that are all designed to empower you to become a better higher ed professional.

[00:29:53] Our shows feature a selection of the industry's best as your host. Learn from Mickey Danes, Jeremy Tier, Jamie Hunt, Jamie [00:30:00] Gleason, and many, many more. You can learn more about the Enroll five podcast network@podcasts.enrollfive.org. Our shows help higher ed marketers and admissions professionals find their next big idea.

[00:30:11] Find yours@podcasts.enrollfive.org.