Introducing "Talking Tactics" with Dayana Kibilds — a New Enrollify Podcast

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[00:00:00] Zach Busekrus: Hey guys, Zach here. I want to invite you to join me at Element four 50 One's Engage Summit on June 27th and 28th in Raleigh, North Carolina. When it comes to the student experience, we know that you want to be a trusted guide from recruiting all the way to graduation. Well, the Engage Summit brings the best minds in higher ed together to give you the strategy and tools that you need to create a cohesive student experience.

[00:00:29] From start to finish, explore the latest technologies, increase your skillset and gain insight into today's students to deliver the most powerful and personalized digital engagement experience every step of the way. This is not your standard ed tech user conference. This is a dynamic inspirational. An empowering event for all higher ed marketers and admissions professionals.

[00:00:51] I'll be presenting at this year's event, along with some of your favorite higher ed LinkedIn and Twitter follows. You can learn more about this event and register for it at Engage [00:01:00] dot element four 50 one.com. Oh, and you can get $50 off your registration when you use the discount code in five 50. That's in Enroll five 50 at checkout.

[00:01:10] So go ahead, check it out. RSVP at. Engage dot Element four 50 one.com. Looking forward to seeing you all there.

[00:01:43] We are live, my friend. How are you doing today? 

[00:01:47] Eddie Francis: I am doing very well, man. How's everything going on your end? It's 

[00:01:50] Zach Busekrus: going well, man. Now that we're talking, everything is great because Eddie, you, I have followed you on social media for a while. I have. I feel like lots of the folks in [00:02:00] my sort of circle of higher ed marketers have nothing but incredible things to say about Eddie Francis, and so I just consider it to be a real treat that I get to talk to you and not just talk to you.

[00:02:12] Think of talking to you, but actually get to talk to you about a new show that you're launching on the Enroll five Podcast Network. So happy to be here. Dude, 

[00:02:21] Eddie Francis: I'm really humbled by the fact that you've heard some good stuff about me. All the good stuff is true. If you've heard anything bad, that is not true at all.

[00:02:29] So I just, I just wanted to be clear about that. All right. 

[00:02:32] Zach Busekrus: Uh, well you heard it here, folks. Uh, you heard it first here. Um, well, Eddie, I am really excited to, for, for our brief chat today. So again, for those who are two are tuning in here, uh, really this episode is really just about Eddie Francis and a little bit about who he is, a little bit about his career to date, his kind of perspective on things.

[00:02:52] And then really what our goal is, is to get you to go and subscribe to his new show, which by the time this episode is released, The, his show will [00:03:00] be available on Apple and Spotify and wherever you get your podcast. And his show is called, I wanna Work There. And we're gonna talk a little bit about sort of his vision and and mission for, for the show in just a second.

[00:03:10] But Eddie, why don't you just kick us off by sharing a little bit about, I'd say two or three kind of highlights of your career to date, right? So you've worked in communications in higher ed for a while. I know that you had like a, a career before that, but if you could pinpoint two or three sort of. Big milestones for, for Eddie's career to date that you'd like to share?

[00:03:32] What would those, what would those milestones be? 

[00:03:35] Eddie Francis: Yeah, you know, the first one, um, I think goes back to my radio days. So I worked in radio for about 20 years. Um, I had the privilege of, um, uh, producing and contributing to a show called Sunday Journal. Um, and I had this interview with this, uh, Rwandan genocide survivor by the name of Immaculate I Giza.

[00:03:53] And no way, um, Yeah, 

[00:03:56] Zach Busekrus: I know her actually, I, I have also had a weird [00:04:00] encounter with her where I got to briefly interview her back in, back in Hawaii, but we'll save that story for another time. That's so cool. I didn't realize that you had interviewed her. 

[00:04:08] Eddie Francis: That is cool. Yeah, and I actually wound up win winning a press club award for it, uh, from the New Orleans Press Club.

[00:04:14] So Amazing. Yeah. So that was, um, you know, that was one, the second one when, um, I did my first. My first job in PR and marketing, um, in higher ed was, um, at Southern University of New Orleans. And, uh, not such a great scenario, but the Louisiana legislature came up with this thing that they wanted to do. They wanted to remove soon over from its system and then, uh, move it to another system.

[00:04:39] Not a very popular choice with the alumni students, but I was able to lead the PR effort, um, to make sure that the suno stayed in its system. And so, um, that was, yeah, that was very intense, but there was, it was pretty exhilarating at the same time to work on that. Um, and the third one, [00:05:00] Most recently, um, I had the privilege of, uh, working with Al, uh, when I was the communications and marketing director at Dillard University.

[00:05:10] And we, you know, I worked with them to roll out a brand refresh campaign called Write Your Legacy. That one was huge for me because to watch it all come to life and to. And to watch the, the market research process and, and all that good stuff. So those are my three big things. Wow. Those 

[00:05:26] Zach Busekrus: were, those are all great.

[00:05:27] Um, and I, I feel like the, the thread that ties it all together, if I could be, you know, so bold as to suggest a thread is that you're really good at managing. Tough conversations and challenging situations, right? Like interviewing immaculate Eliza, incredible individual, uh, really painful story right in, in the history of the world.

[00:05:49] And talk about sort of that, that moment and then winning an award for that. And then with a, with, you know, your more recent project, uh, uh, with, with ology, any sort of brand. [00:06:00] Refresh campaign or rebrand is, is nothing, uh, short of something full of opinions, as you know, from people that quite frankly, shouldn't have an opinion on.

[00:06:10] I feel like anytime you, if you, if you're wondering, if people don't have an opinion on anything, just tell them that you're going to go through a brand refresh or a rebrand and all of a sudden, Everybody that could have cared less about your brand previously decides that they now care. 

[00:06:25] Eddie Francis: Yes. That, oh goodness.

[00:06:26] You, you hit that. You know what? I'm not even gonna add to it because you hit that dead on. Absolutely. Dead on. Yep. That's what happened. Yep. 

[00:06:33] Zach Busekrus: Oh gosh. Well, that's, that's incredible, man. And I, uh, when I, when we had our very first conversation, uh, over Zoom, Eddie, when we first started talking about the possibility of you doing a show on our network, I was so struck.

[00:06:45] By, by your voice. I'm sure you get this a lot. Like you just have the perfect radio voice and now the perfect podcast voice. And I know that you're not even, you're not new to podcasting either. You've done, you've done shows before and so I just, I feel like when I listen to you [00:07:00] talk, I could just listen to you talk about.

[00:07:01] Pretty much anything and be intrigued by it. So that's a gift. That's a gift, my friend. 

[00:07:07] Eddie Francis: Good. Well, I'm gonna have to treat you to a conversation about my dog running around the yard, and we'll see how that intrigues you. 

[00:07:13] Zach Busekrus: Honestly, I'm already transfixed. I'm already transfixed. Um, well, Eddie, I, I, I do wanna talk a little bit about your, your, uh, career in specifically in higher ed.

[00:07:23] Yeah. And you, you've been, uh, at a number of institutions I know that you are most recently at, at Dillard and helped rolling out, helped roll out the. This major sort of brand refreshes you were just alluding to. What, what are like one or two things about the, the state of higher ed that, uh, that keep you up at night?

[00:07:40] Or, or, or, or one or two things about the state of higher ed that you think need, need a little love, need a need a little of attention. 

[00:07:47] Eddie Francis: You know, the first thing is, um, to me there's an external threat, um, to higher ed. And that is, um, This thought that a lot of folks have is that college isn't for everybody.

[00:07:57] Hmm. Um, so first of all, I agree with [00:08:00] that, that college isn't for everybody. But I don't think the rule is the same for every population. You know, as an African American, I always think about how that term affects the African American community. Hmm. You know, um, because for us, we have had this. Uh, this, this relationship with education that has really gotten so many of our people out of poverty or out of situations, and it's changed the trajectory of so many people's lives, you know?

[00:08:27] Yeah. Um, and so whenever I hear that, but I think it's also leaking into other areas too, so, I, I do wonder how other minority serving institutions when they hear that college and for everybody thing, I do wonder what their reaction is too. You know, Hispanic serving. Yeah, definitely. Tribal colleges and universities.

[00:08:46] I wonder what they think when they hear the same thing. Um, you know, Being, you know, serving, serving people in a minority, uh, population. So that's one thing that kind of keeps me up at night. Um, the other thing that [00:09:00] keeps me up is, quite frankly, um, the, and this is why I'm doing a podcast, um, it, it is the state of human resources in, um, in, in higher education.

[00:09:11] You know, um, I hear all these stories about how. People are selected for opportunities. I hear all these stories about how something happened in at on a college campus, and I'm like, that would never fly in a private sector. There was, there is no way that somebody would be able to get away with saying something like that to someone or treating someone in that way in a private sector.

[00:09:32] So why in higher education do we let some of this stuff happen? And the reason it keeps me up at night is we say it all the time. The most valuable resource is a human resource. So if the most valuable resource is a human resource, and I've heard people at colleges and universities say this, yeah, then why are you not treating people like they are the most valuable resource.

[00:09:53] Mm-hmm. And so, um, those, those are the two things. You know, when I think about it, uh, those are the two things that [00:10:00] kind of keep me up at 

[00:10:00] Zach Busekrus: night. Those are things worth keeping you up at night. Right. Because they're incredibly important and wonderfully challenging, uh, uh, aspects of, of the work, right. That, that we're all doing Yeah.

[00:10:11] Of the industry. And I, I wanna, I wanna quickly touch on sort of your, your last point here around the kind of. The, the human resource. And we've, we've seen this remarkable pivot. And I would even argue that there are still colleges and universities that haven't made this pivot as aggressively as, as they should, right.

[00:10:28] To being, you know, student-centric, right? Mm-hmm. And understanding mm-hmm. That our students are our customers and you know, we really need to develop and. And pour a lot of resources into cultivating really strong student experiences from the minute they interact with our website Right. To the minute they graduate and then Right.

[00:10:44] For the rest of their lives if we're working, um, in, in advancement. Right. And, and I think that the, the, the potential downside that has happened with this focus, right, while, while again, still not fully realized in my opinion, is that the people. Like you, Eddie, [00:11:00] who are working at these colleges and universities and trying to champion and cultivate this particular vision.

[00:11:07] And you, you all really matter. If, if there aren't great recruiters, if there aren't great marketers, if there aren't, great, if there isn't great leadership. In the context of higher ed, how can you possibly expect people to care about students, right? If, if, if, yep. If the people themselves are not. Are not feeling loved and cared for and, um, and quite frankly, just inspired by their own brand and the culture that they exist in.

[00:11:32] How can you expect students to, to feel that? 

[00:11:35] Eddie Francis: Yeah, and you know, there was a situation, um, that, uh, I've seen happen at a. Couple of colleges and universities, and it's gonna grow. It is, it's not gonna get any better where you have these student leaders who are stepping up and saying, you are not doing right by the employees.

[00:11:51] Hmm. Um, you know, uh, there, there's, uh, you know, there's one situation where students are protesting because of the treatment of a faculty member at one [00:12:00] institution. There's another institution where. Students made a list of demands actually, a couple of years ago, and one of the demands was, you've gotta pay the facilities people better.

[00:12:10] Hmm. And, and how did the students come to this conclusion? Well, they were trying to figure out why is it they could not get adequate assistance with their facilities. And of course, the facilities people are frustrated and the students were kind of close to the facilities people. Yeah. They had established a rapport with them, huh.

[00:12:27] And. Course the facilities people say, you know what? They need to just pay us better. Yeah. And so the students are saying, well, wait a minute. Is this why you can't deliver the kind of service that I'm paying for? Yeah. So, um, and so I, I think that, um, I think that number one, students are very aware and becoming much more aware of, of what needs to happen on the HR side of the house.

[00:12:53] Yeah. Um, which is a good thing. Yeah. I mean, I'm glad students are becoming more aware of that. Um, you know, the, but the [00:13:00] other thing is, you know, you have these students on the other side of this. You have these students who go to college. And they may not necessarily get as involved as the student leaders who drive these protests and things like that.

[00:13:13] They go to school, they don't exactly know why they're not getting the kind of service they should get. Yeah. Uh, from people in offices and that sort of thing. And so they get frustrated and. They leave. Yeah. Yeah. They simp. They simply leave college and maybe not that institution, but they leave college all together because students bring their own issues to college.

[00:13:36] Right. They bring those issues to college and they don't know, they don't always know how to ask for help. Hmm. So they don't always know where to go. Even when you tell 'em they're not exactly sure if they should go get the help. And so, When they get frustrated, and I watch this a lot actually at Dillard, um, when they get frustrated, because we have so many, we, you know, Dillard has so [00:14:00] many first generation students.

[00:14:01] Yeah. When those students get frustrated, they just say, you know what? That's it. I'm done. Hmm. I'm, I'm outta here because this is just, this is too much for me. It's overwhelming. Yeah. And so I think, I think I'm, I'm, one of the things I'm really hoping that the podcast does is it brings focus to how, if. We can figure out how to treat people better on campuses, then that will provide a much better student experience, um, for colleges and universities.

[00:14:31] Zach Busekrus: Oh gosh. So, so well said. And, and I don't, again, I don't know what this is like, but I would imagine. Right. Uh, a world in which these first generation college students who are, who are attending schools, and then as you're, as you're alluding to getting, getting frustrated that their needs aren't being met, right.

[00:14:47] These, these, these students typically have more barriers to entry, more friction mm-hmm. Than other people of privilege. And what's I, I would imagine too, it's like, wow. It, it almost confirms all the fears that they had [00:15:00] going in, right? Mm-hmm. All the fears that like, uh, I'm paying a lot. I don't really know if this is worth it.

[00:15:05] I'm sacrificing a lot. I might have, you know, a family at home that I need to take care of. I might be working two or three jobs in addition to going to school. Right. And if I can't get the help and the resources that I need, if I, if the facilities aren't up to the standard that, that I need in order to be able to kind of study well there, or live the live well there, whatever it might be, then why am I even doing this?

[00:15:26] Right? And, and I, I love, I love your perspective of how ultimately that goes back to. Staff and administration and leadership thinking about, hey, the student experience is, is, is, is so much more than just a great education, right? It's about how, how are, how are facilities taken care of? Like how, how happy are the staff?

[00:15:42] Like, who do I go to for, for help? Like, how excited are people about learning? How excited about, you know, are, are people about the product that we're, that we're delivering at this college or university? And so I, I'm, I'm just really excited that you're going to be, Taking sort of the, the charge and helping start a [00:16:00] hopefully wide ranging and, and large conversation about how to better support all individuals at colleges and universities, but especially those who are, who are on the front lines of, of cultivating a great student experience.

[00:16:13] Eddie Francis: Yeah. You know, when, when I was, um, so one of the things that happened with me is that, you know, I started at a couple of, uh, universities and then I actually took a detour in my career to talent acquisition, and then I went back into higher ed. So when I went back into higher ed, I couldn't turn my recruiter brain off.

[00:16:32] Yeah. I just couldn't do it. Yeah. So I would sit there and I would look around and say, This is a really simple fix. Why are we making this so difficult? You know, um, like there was one situation, I'll never forget this situation where, um, there was a conversation about a hire and, and as we were discussing the candidate, people just, they didn't know where to go.

[00:16:53] They didn't know what to do. And, you know, and, and, and so at the, you know, at some point I said, okay, I get it. This is somebody's friend and they're trying to get [00:17:00] their friend hired. Fine. Yeah. We're about to create a disaster for some kid because you're gonna hire your friend. Your friend doesn't know what they're doing.

[00:17:08] They're gonna come in, they're gonna tear everything up. Yeah. And the people who are gonna suffer are the ones paying thousands of dollars for this per year. Yeah. Um, and even in the case, you know, you mentioned, you know, I mentioned first gen students and, and you mentioned along with that students are privilege, but even in the case of students of privilege, they're paying.

[00:17:27] That many more dollars. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so for the high end universities that charge the most money, they are expecting and rightfully so, white glove treatment. Yep. You know, and so if they're not getting that white glove treatment from their administrations, you know, and you can say what you want to say about people of privilege and the amount of money they have, they're still spending the money.

[00:17:50] Yeah. On a lifetime decision. Yeah. And so, They, they do deserve that white glove treatment. Yeah. And they do deserve for the institution, when they make [00:18:00] human resources moves, they deserve for them to make moves. That make sense? Yeah. Um, so that not only are the students serve, but then now you gotta think about donors.

[00:18:10] Yeah. You know, you have these donors and these funders who are investing in this institution, they wanna return on their investment. And so if you have, if you have personnel, Who are just generally in a bad mood or they don't feel like they're being fulfilled by what they're doing, then that's bad news for the funder.

[00:18:31] That's bad news for the donor as well. And of course, and of course, you know, Zach, this is routine. That, that, that colleges and universities go through. You know, they bring funders on campus and they try to find a way to hide the people who are not too satisfied with the work experience. 

[00:18:48] Zach Busekrus: They're like, Hey, hey Susie, uh, why don't you take the day off?

[00:18:51] Why don't you go work home today, Susie, 

[00:18:54] Eddie Francis: I know. It's like, oh, you know, take a mental health day. It's like you've. Suggesting a mental health day to anybody. [00:19:00] Why are you suggesting it to Suzy all of a sudden? So, but hey, I mean, but you wouldn't have to do that if you were making more thoughtful moves. Yeah.

[00:19:09] You know? And, um, and being more thoughtful, um, about, uh, about how you treat the folks on campus. 

[00:19:15] Zach Busekrus: Yeah. Well, and I would imagine too, right? Like. And not even, I don't even have to imagine, I know this to be true, right? We've just gone through an incredibly disruptive few years in higher education. Mm-hmm. And the need for great talent, right.

[00:19:27] Has, has never been greater. Right. You've got so, so many people with way more flexibility than they've ever had before. Way more choice than they've ever had ever had before. Maybe you, maybe you were, you know, a, a director of marketing at a school in, you know, a small town in Wisconsin because like that's, that was the biggest employer in town.

[00:19:44] That's where you could get a good job. Right. Now all of a sudden, right, you could, you could stay in your beautiful, small town of Wisconsin, but you could work for someone in New York or LA or DC or Chicago, right? And, and that amount of choice, right? This industry, quite frankly, just has never seen before.

[00:19:59] And so you're, you're [00:20:00] competing right with, with jobs that quite frankly can offer. Higher Ed used to be used to tout itself as like, Hey, we're a great place, we've got great benefits and we've got great flexibility. Right? Not so much anymore, right? Or, and, and those things still might be true, but other people are able to compete because you can now be employed nationally and or even internationally and live wherever you want.

[00:20:20] That like the, the need for great, especially on, on-campus talent, right? These, these champions of your brand ha, has never been greater. So all the more reason why I think, Eddie, what you're gonna do with this show is so timely. Is that I think everybody, everybody wants to figure this out. Mm-hmm. I don't think that leadership doesn't wanna figure it out.

[00:20:39] I don't think that like, you know, your, your, your, your markcom folks, your, your admin, your, your lifelong kind of like career higher eds. I, I, I think that they also want to figure out, I do think that there is, there's this, this notion that something isn't right and we need to fix it, but I don't. It doesn't seem clear or it doesn't seem like everyone's on the same page of, of how to, to go about fixing [00:21:00] that.

[00:21:00] So, so what? Yeah, just share a couple quick ideas of, of things that you wanna, at least conversations that you wanna have with folks to sort of help lean into this challenge and this problem. And maybe even suggest some, some ways that we might begin to kind of move the needle here. 

[00:21:16] Eddie Francis: The first thing is just the overall concept of employer branding.

[00:21:21] Mm-hmm. Um, and, and what that's about. Um, because when it comes to employer branding, it's exactly what it sounds like. You are establishing your brand as an employer of choice and so, How do you get there? Yeah. Is the big question that that's a mystery to higher education a as you just alluded to, higher ed never had to do it before.

[00:21:41] Yeah, you're right. I mean, people have been locked into their cities and you just went to work for the biggest player that you could in that city or Yeah. Who, whichever campus you could get to. But now, What a lot of people are finding out or have found out the hard way, and I, and I made this comment in a meeting once [00:22:00] when I was at Dillard, is I say, Hey, listen, in recruiting, we call it post and pray.

[00:22:05] You can't post the job and pray that you're gonna get all these great candidates, all these great applicants. It doesn't work that way anymore. Yeah. And I have seen Zach, where I'm sitting in New Orleans and I'm sitting there looking at uh, uh, on LinkedIn. I'm looking at a job posting for a communications and marketing director in Baltimore.

[00:22:27] Yeah, I'm looking at another one at a university in California. Several universities in California, so yeah. It is happening right now. The administrators are starting to, even the people on the administrative level are starting to say, yeah. So, um, I'd like to work three weeks remotely. Yeah. And I'll come visit campus one week.

[00:22:45] Yep, exactly. And, and and and they can and they can call their shots. Yeah. So if there's another thing that I can get people to understand is that even though, even though I think we are kind of starting to see the, the remote [00:23:00] work level off. You are still in a situation where the talent, the best talent, can call their shots.

[00:23:07] Yep. Yep. Um, and with the issue of burnout, really gaining a lot of steam in higher education, I. It's not about somebody who's a dir who is a director of student engagement saying, well, it's not working out here, so I'll go to another institution. No, it's about that person saying, you know what, it's not working out here.

[00:23:28] I'm not moving. I'm gonna start a consulting agency. Yeah. And, and ain't no, and people are, and people are having less and less of a problem, I think with opting out of higher education. Yeah. That's a huge problem for higher education. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so, And I think honestly, this is gonna go all the way up to the presidencies.

[00:23:48] Mm. Um, where I think you're gonna have presidents who are going to, who I, you already have presidents who are saying, I know I'm good, I know I'm talented. I, I have the stuff to do this, [00:24:00] but I don't want to do it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, because. I'm not gonna pick up my life and move five states over. I'm just not gonna do it.

[00:24:08] And at the same time, you're starting to get people, well, this has always been the case, but now it's becoming, I think, more of a problem where you're getting people who may not be so qualified. Yeah, yeah. To do this stuff and they're raising their hands really hard. And what's happening is that in the interview processes, they're the, they're the last ones standing.

[00:24:27] Hmm. And so yeah, you have the, you have the hiring managers and the boards saying, well, they're the last ones standing. We don't want to fail the search. Let's take them. Yeah. Yeah. And, and what happens? Again, the organizational culture suffers. The employees start to suffer and ultimately the students start to suffer.

[00:24:48] And so I'm hoping that, um, we can have some really robust conversation about that. Um, I'm really excited about people who I'm gonna be getting in contact with. Yeah. Um, hoping that they say yes. [00:25:00] Fingers crossed that all of them say yes, but, uh, I, if, if the folks who are really want to get involved in this say yes, then I think we're gonna have some really good 

[00:25:09] Zach Busekrus: stuff.

[00:25:09] I am excited for, for those conversations, Eddie, because again, I just, it, it's, it's so important we're living through this, uh, monumental. It is quite frankly the, the best word for it, uh, moment. Mm-hmm. In, in the industry where it, it's kind of a make or break moment and, and like I, I know that people have been maybe saying that for a while, but I, I really do think like, no, it is, it is a make or break moment and I don't think you have to go that much further than asking a Gen Zer, especially a younger Gen Zer, like, Hey, what are your thoughts on college?

[00:25:37] My. I've got my sister, her friends, um, who, and she goes to a school with, you know, people from, from all backgrounds and, and all levels of, of privilege and the conversation around whether, uh, to go to college or not, even when I was in, in high school, right. The expectation was that everyone was gonna go, and then if you didn't, it was kind of like, Oh wow.

[00:25:59] Like [00:26:00] maybe they're, you know, maybe something's a little, like you felt ashamed a little bit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like admitting, like even if you admitted that you wanted to take a gap year, that was like uhoh headed in the wrong direction. Right. And, and now with her, and in her class it's like, she's like, no, I think 25% of her class is like gonna at least take a gap year.

[00:26:16] And I, that 25%, several of them have just decided, Hey, I'm gonna go and try to work and do my own thing for a bit. And then if I. If that doesn't work out, then I'll go to college. Right? Mm-hmm. I don't wanna take on all that, all that debt, right? And anyways, it's just, it's happening, right? Mm-hmm. And, and, and, and it's not, it's not something that this gen, this, this next generation is like scared about.

[00:26:34] Like they're, they're, they're not ashamed of saying, oh, I'm not going to college. And you know, that my, my sister and I are 10 years apart. And like, that's 10 years, right? Which is not a long time with respect to sort of like, history, right? And if in 10 years the sentiment can go from like, Well, if you don't go to college, there must be something wrong with you.

[00:26:53] Mm-hmm. To like, you know, oh my gosh, regardless of your privilege. Like not going to college is totally acceptable. [00:27:00] Like, yeah, no worries, man. You do you kind of thing. Right? Like, and that's, that's just so interesting. So anyways, all that is to say is, That's problematic in, in and of itself. Then the talent conversation that, that you're gonna be chatting about in your show, which I think is just super, super important.

[00:27:14] We need great people and we, we need people. We need like the, the next generation of folks that are gonna come in and rebrand higher ed, right? Absolutely. Like we need those sorts of leaders because higher education is incredibly important, as you alluded to at the start of our conversation. It is one of the best ways to help people, especially people from, uh, underrepresented and, and, and less privileged backgrounds to be able to make these.

[00:27:36] Larger leaps and mm-hmm. And, and break these, these, um, uh, you know, systems of oppression. Right. And, and I think that like, it would be terrible for everybody if higher ed were to just die. It really would, it really would. It can't reignite, but Right. We, we need like that, that next generation of champions who are gonna come in, who are gonna make this their lives work.

[00:27:56] And the, the only way that people are going to be willing to do that, Eddie, is if. [00:28:00] As you know, they're inspired and they feel taken care of because guess what, like I don't love it enough. I don't love the industry enough to sell my soul to it and and feel like I'm gonna die every day. Right. Like that. No, nobody wants to live in a culture like that.

[00:28:13] Right. And that unfortunately, in many contexts is the kind of culture that we're seeing unfold at colleges, universities across the country. It is 

[00:28:22] Eddie Francis: and what's happening. There's this really interesting transition in leadership styles and paradigm that's going on right now and, and you have some people who are taking on the roles of presidencies and chancellors who are walking in, and it's still kind of in this nineties transactional leadership type of mindset where it's like, you know, I'm the leader, you're the follower, blah, blah, blah.

[00:28:46] But yeah. But Gen Z is, uh, gen Z is not, they don't respond that kindly to that. Um, yeah, gen, gen Z is saying, okay, you're the leader, but [00:29:00] who's your boss? And, and, and, and, and of course Gen X. I'm Gen X and, and, and the, and the boomers. We don't like that question. We don't like what he mean. Who's, it Doesn't matter who my boss is.

[00:29:11] I'm your boss. Take it, you know? And you know, we're finger wagging at people and stuff like that, but we have to get real about this, you know? Yeah. The millennials, that generation has, has shifted a lot of stuff. Gen Z is coming right behind and you got the generation coming behind Gen Z and so, What I'm really hoping that we accomplish is that through this podcast, we can think through ways that we can find sensible ways in establishing an employer brand.

[00:29:39] I mean, I'm glad that this is a podcast that really plays to the marketing audience because Yeah, we know that branding isn't some slight of hand cheap par trick thing. You know, it's, you know, And one of my great colleagues, Kate Ledger, said this, she's at Pitt, and she said, you know, great branding is built on truth.

[00:29:56] And so that's what we want to talk about. We want to talk about [00:30:00] what is the truth of what makes an environment valuable, a campus environment valuable so that you do find the people, the right kinds of people who are going to be able to. Operate that campus. The right kinds of people who are going to, who are gonna instruct the students, the right kinds of people who are gonna conduct research so that the students take away the best.

[00:30:23] Experience that they can possibly take from that campus. And I, and, and one of the things I wanna be very careful of is, is really understanding that the environment for every campus is different. So, you know, some folks are gonna hear stuff on a podcast, they're gonna say, ah, that's not gonna apply to us.

[00:30:39] And other people are gonna hear stuff and they're gonna say, you know what? That is us all the way and we've gotta, we gotta go with that, you know? Yeah. So, um, hopefully, you know, I can really win a lot of ears of people who say, you know what, that's what we need to do. That's gonna work for us, and that's how we're gonna make this the best campus we can make it.

[00:30:57] Zach Busekrus: Eddie, this is wonderful. I am, [00:31:00] I, I, I love how passionate you are about this. This conversation is, it's time that this conversation has been, has been had, uh, and that it be a serious conversation and the conversation that brings in so many different perspectives. And so I'm super excited for your show.

[00:31:14] I'm really glad that we have the opportunity to host it for you. For folks tuning in, I really just want to encourage you to scroll on down to the show notes. Head on over to. I wanna work there. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to your podcast. Um, Eddie, really appreciate you and, and you know, your, your work and the, the time that you're putting into this, I think you're gonna cultivate a really meaningful conversation and I'm excited to listen to it and I, I know that folks tuning into this particular conversation will be excited to listen to it, uh, as well.

[00:31:43] Any, any kind of parting, uh, words or, or thoughts for folks before we sign off? Eddie? The 

[00:31:47] Eddie Francis: biggest thing is, and I wanna go back to my last point. The biggest thing is I know that every solution isn't for everybody. Yeah. But. More than anything. I hope that the solutions [00:32:00] that we do put forth and the conversation that we do put forth, I hope it really sparks some, um, some really deep thought and some robust.

[00:32:10] Meaningful conversations on campus, uh, on campuses across the country because, um, you know, it really is a terrifying prospect, excuse me, of, of, of seeing, uh, a lot of colleges and universities lose populations of students because yeah, we need not just the next generation of leaders, but we do need this next generation.

[00:32:33] Of people to create knowledge, you know? And so, um, and so that, and, and they're not gonna get it anywhere else. Yeah. Um, and so, um, so yeah, so I really hope that what we do sparks meaningful conversation, um, and some very thoughtful decision making on campuses. 

[00:32:52] Zach Busekrus: Yeah. Well, I I think it will, uh, in fact, I, I know it will because you're, you're at the helm, Eddie, and it's, it's important that, um, [00:33:00] that folks who are tuning into this conversation head on over and subscribe because they're not gonna wanna miss it.

[00:33:04] And even if you're, like, if you're in a position of power, if you're in a leadership position, right? And you think We've got this, I've got this. Listen, listen to the show because you, you might be exposed to perspectives that you didn't realize were true on your campus, right? Regardless of kind of like where you sit right at the, at the table, whether they're at the head of the table or you're, you know, caught somewhere towards the bottom middle, it doesn't matter.

[00:33:24] Like, listen to this conversation. Listen to these conversations. Subscribe to this podcast because it's important that these conversations, Right. Go beyond just a hour long, 45 minute long, 30 minute conversation with Eddie, whatever it might be. And it's important that they, that they actually translate to meaningful conversations on your campus.

[00:33:40] And if they don't, right, change won't happen. If, if all you ever do is listen to Eddie's beautiful voice, that'll be entertaining and great. But like the change that Eddie wants to see, right, isn't going to be realized. So we need you folks. We need you who are tuning in to subscribe daddy's show, listen to his podcast, and then use it as a way to start a meaningful conversation in your context.

[00:33:59] I'm looking [00:34:00] 

[00:34:00] Eddie Francis: forward to getting it started. 

[00:34:01] Zach Busekrus: Yes, likewise man. Thank you so much for your time, Eddie. Really excited for your show. Everyone last, uh, reminder, scrolling to the show notes, head on over to. I wanna work there and subscribe wherever you get your podcast.

[00:34:21] Hey y'all. Zach here from Enroll. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Enroll I podcast. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and hit that follow and subscribe button below. Furthermore, if you've got just two minutes to spare, we would greatly appreciate you leading a rating and review of this show on Apple Podcast.

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