Julie Lammers on Nurturing Informed College Choices for Students

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Dustin Ramsdell: So we are here on day two, south by southwest edu. Uh, in-person recording, uh, which is always a treat. So we're gonna have a great conversation, uh, focusing in on, uh, higher ed choice, how students can get more informed about. Various options that are available to them. We'll start out as we always do, have our guests introduce themselves and give a brief overview of their professional background and how they got to be where they are today.

[00:00:28] Julie Lamers: Great. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. I'm Julie Lambers, senior Vice President of Advocacy and Corporate Social Responsibility for American Student Assistance. A s a is a national nonprofit focused on, uh, changing the way kids learn about. and then navigate a path to post-secondary education and career success.

[00:00:45] Um, and I came to ASA about 13 years ago. Um, and I work on both our advocacy and policy issues as well as our corporate social responsibility, so our philanthropy side, doing direct grants to organizations, doing great work [00:01:00] in the field, as well as trying to change policy systems to make sure that there's more opportunity for students.

[00:01:05] Dustin Ramsdell: Awesome. , and I know you have a background in policy and everything, so I dunno if you wanna kind of speak to that, cause I'd love to hear more about it cause I just haven't had the opportunity to talk with people a lot about it. Cause I think that's such an important part of the whole equation. Why I love.

[00:01:18] South by edu of like, it brings all those people together. So just kinda your background 

[00:01:22] Julie Lamers: experience. Yeah. So, uh, prior to Asa I worked for the United States Senate for about nine years, um, doing education outreach really with, uh, constituents in Massachusetts. I worked for US Senator Ted Kennedy, um, for nine years, uh, and did.

[00:01:38] The gamut from, uh, pre-K to higher ed and sort of everything that was required in between. Um, so, you know, that's really sort of my, my first love and passion, um, and working now to try to change some of the policies we, we created back then. Um, try to perfect them, uh, going forward. 

[00:01:55] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah. Cause I guess that is like an interesting idea of, especially if you've like been working long [00:02:00] enough in a certain field where it's just like, oh yeah, I remember like doing that or being part of that.

[00:02:03] All these things come back around . 

[00:02:04] Julie Lamers: Yeah. Like it's 

[00:02:05] Dustin Ramsdell: iterative. What mistake do we make then? . Yeah. Like it's iterative and all that, you know, it's like, hey, we, we did the best with the knowledge we had at the time, or whatever. Or certainly in like nowadays where. You know, I imagine just with like the work that ASA does where like there are so many more different opportunities for, you know, uh, students to make, you know, with uh, going to college, which college, what are they studying, online, hybrid, in person, or doing a bootcamp, like all these different things.

[00:02:29] So, um, if you wanna focus in just more broadly too, cause I mean, you talked about. your role at asa, but just sort of what ASA does, sort of the organization, the whole 

[00:02:37] Julie Lamers: team there. Sure. We're focused on really college and career readiness issues, um, and ensuring kids understand their options at a mu much earlier age.

[00:02:45] And so we do this in a few ways. Um, as I mentioned, I handle our policy advocacy and, and philanthropy areas. We also do a lot of work creating digital program. To get directly to kids through the platforms that we know [00:03:00] they're living on a lot through social media. Reached about 11 million kids last year through TikTok, just with short videos to try to start conversations about their, um, career readiness, what questions they might wanna be asking, how they start thinking about their personal interests and how that aligns with something long term, not having kids.

[00:03:20] At an early age, but really trying to open up opportunity for kids to think more critically about what their future looks like. Um, so we do that a lot through d digital, direct kid services, uh, and then we do some impact investing as well to try to create more opportunity in the field for new innovations in the space.

[00:03:37] Um, and, and just really new products and services that can help students. . 

[00:03:42] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah. And I think that's interesting, like sort of the variety approach, you know? Cause it's like, yeah, like you might want people to kind of like test drive things and that can help sort of be like, eh, you know, like, don't like that it's too much of this, none of that, you know?

[00:03:54] And then yeah, just like be exposed to new things. So just like, like, like here's some stuff to think about, like, [00:04:00] and, you know, do it that what you will. But, um, so yeah, like there's, there's so much that goes into making more informed higher ed choices and. , I guess, like if you wanna speak to some of those or maybe kind of like anecdotes of something of like how you help, you know.

[00:04:15] Sure. You kinda gave that, uh, quick sort of bulleted list and everything, so I think, uh, yeah, like I leading question, like, I think we'll get to sort of like why it's important, the impact and everything, um, because yeah, like I, I, I found like talking to a lot more people about this, like yeah, like, it's so crucial.

[00:04:33] I think there's just, there's so many preconceived notions about like how students. , you know, in, in absence of the mm-hmm. , the work that you all do, like how people make these choices. It's like, yeah. It's sort of, you know, not the most efficient, like not the best for everybody, so, yeah. 

[00:04:48] Julie Lamers: Yeah. So, and I think it really goes to our sort of evolution as an organization.

[00:04:53] So historically we were in the student loan space and we did counseling on student loans. Then for a while we did financial [00:05:00] education counseling, um, mainly for college students. What we. While doing that work was that students had made a lot of poorly informed decisions about why they were in higher ed to begin with.

[00:05:12] We're having a lot of conversations about, I wish I had known. So, uh, at that time, about seven years ago, we, we switched our mission to try to figure out how could we be more proactive at helping kids make deliberate choices about their post-secondary education. So we start by trying to expand opportunities for career exploration in middle school.

[00:05:33] I think it's really important that kids start thinking about these opportunities no later than middle school. Um, a lot of data shows that if kids have not. Seen something as possible by middle school. They start foreclosing opportunities, which means they're not aligning then their higher ed, their high school classwork to, you know, reach, um, make it possible for them to pursue a specific post-secondary education path.

[00:05:59] So that [00:06:00] exploration in middle school is critically important, really opening up students eyes to what, uh, you know, the four things that we like to have kids think about, what they like, what they're good at. What the world needs and what they can get paid for. And somewhere in the middle of all of those four things are something that are a series of career opportunities for students.

[00:06:22] So everyone should be thinking critically about what those four things are. It doesn't have to stop in middle school. You can think about that your high entire life. Um, but you know, I think those are the, the, the sort of key elements. in that middle school space in high school. Then we like to have kids be able to test and try.

[00:06:38] And what we mean by that is maybe an entrepreneurship experience, an internship job shadow, something that gives them exposure to the world of work and helps them begin eliminating possibilities. What are the things that I like? What are the things that I hate? What is my sort of job identity? using then all that information to say, okay, I [00:07:00] have, I thought I wanted to be a nurse, but it turns out I hate the sight of blood, right?

[00:07:04] So I'm not gonna spend time and money going down a post-secondary education path that includes that as a profession. But I still like science. So what are the other opportunities there? You know, what we saw in the post-secondary education space when we were doing a lot of counseling is kids were waiting too late to make.

[00:07:25] Links between their education and career. And so you, you know, waiting till junior year to have their first work experience discovering they hate something, have already spent two years, um, in a major paying for college. Now have to pivot, have to change majors, maybe change schools. For a lot of kids, the risk of doing that and failing is way too high.

[00:07:48] So how can. Uh, eliminate some of that risk by allowing those opportunities in high school to be the platform to, to try discover what you hate, discover what you love, and then make [00:08:00] a much more deliberate choice about how that aligns with an edu uh, education after high school. So I think that's sort of the journey that we would hope kids see and, and what we're trying to build systems and opportunity for kids to experience.

[00:08:12] Mm-hmm. . 

[00:08:13] Dustin Ramsdell: Well, I love that sort of Venn diagram that you explained and everything too. Cause I think like there. , you know, there was, which I, I feel like we haven't really gotten past is like trying to be like, Hey, just like, do what you love and everything like that. And it's like, okay, well let's kind of like break that down and get more clear and specific and tangible of like something that you can use to help make decisions.

[00:08:31] Mm-hmm. of like, you know, what you're good at, enjoy and get paid for and, you know, uh, the world needs everything. But the, the thing that I thought of too, which is interesting is like, as much as I think certain people might be like, oh, well, like what you major in, like, doesn't matter or whatever, but like, I think if you.

[00:08:45] Or making the, like, you know what you wanna do and you can make the most of this experience. It could be like, yeah, like I graduated with a history degree. I don't use that, but it's also just sort of like I, I got enough from my college experience, but like it would've been that much more impactful or valuable or efficient when, [00:09:00] like any number of things if I went into it with a very clear, like, I kind of just stumbled into just like, I don't know why I like history.

[00:09:06] Mm-hmm. , you know, and that's obviously unfortunately how so many students sort of like, yeah, like you said, kind of get into colleges, sort of like, I don't know, I think I wanna do this, but it's like, oh my gosh. Don't like this, like one really crucial part of Right. You know, the, the profession. 

[00:09:19] Julie Lamers: And I think, you know, college is certainly an opportunity for a lot of kids to sort of discover who they are and, and go through that, that experience.

[00:09:25] But as I say, you know, first of all, we know the statistics around college completion. Um, they're not great , right? There's majority of kids will not get to the, the point of a degree. Um, there are 36 million Americans that have stopped out of college, and that is it. A huge concern. So we wanna get kids to a point where they are, they have a credential that can get them to a place of economic mobility.

[00:09:51] And while that exploration piece is really important and figuring out what you love and how, where, where you're gonna fit in the world, um, is a really critical [00:10:00] piece of the experience of college for a lot of people, that's just not the reality. Right. And so it's, it has to be also a more. Choice of how does this get me to a point of career success?

[00:10:11] Um, and, and so allow frontloading some of those exploration activities in the middle school and high school space, and giving kids the time to explore then when it's less risky to fail. Um, you know, we think is a, is a sort of more practical approach these days. Ti the, the nature of post-secondary education has changed, you know, in years ago.

[00:10:32] you could go to college and have a summer job and that would pay for the cost of college. It's not the case anymore. ? Mm-hmm. . Right? So there is an enormous investment that's going into college and it needs to be more, uh, thought out than a lot of kids are, um, are doing right now. And, and part of that is it's not on them.

[00:10:51] It's the amount of information they have available to them. Uh, and we need to do a better job at helping kids navigate that post-secondary education decision [00:11:00] and, and what works for them. , uh, what meets their long-term goals? 

[00:11:05] Dustin Ramsdell: I had a follow up question. Just kind sort of came to me of just thinking about like, the past couple of years too.

[00:11:11] Like how has like, just obviously the, the even more vast like remote opportunities for work and everything like played. Because I think like, you know, the, the zeitgeist would say like, oh, everybody wants to work remotely. Like, you know mm-hmm. , that's just how it's going to be. But like, I imagine that could be.

[00:11:28] one. Just a sort of mechanism to get people exposed to so many more things versus just within their area, but also like an important sort of dynamic to think through. Like, do you wanna work with other people? Yeah. In person, like, that is like a huge difference in terms of your like work experience and those sort of things.

[00:11:42] So how has that sort of played into the work that you do? Yeah, it's been 

[00:11:46] Julie Lamers: really interesting. So we started, um, there were a couple of. work-based learning programs. We funded that, uh, in sort of November of 2019, that when they were going into [00:12:00] 2020, uh, you know, the, the summer of 2020 to launch these programs had to completely rethink the model, uh, that they were, um, gonna deliver to students.

[00:12:08] And how would that best work? What we found after a couple of years of, of doing and sort of researching how they did it, two things. . Um, a lot of companies are saying this is the wave of the future. Even if we don't go back, if we don't go full remote, there will be times when people will be working from home.

[00:12:27] So just teaching kids the skillset of working remotely. Mm-hmm. is completely different. animal right than Manag, uh, ma managing a student program in an office. So just that skillset of being online, showing up for zooms on time, you know, turning on your camera, all of those things that we had to struggle through in 2020 is a skillset the kids now need to learn.

[00:12:52] Um, and so there's that piece of it, but there's also, um, A huge opportunity that we have found, [00:13:00] uh, particularly, um, you know, we've funded an organization project called the Catalyze Challenge that is a pooled funding, um, opportunity between us asa, or the Walton Family Foundation and the the Koch Foundation, and as well as a number of other funders.

[00:13:17] One of the programs that we fund through that work is, is focused on how we get work-based learning experiences to rural students. They were, the entire project that they're working on is focused on this idea of how do you get rural kids to get exposure to virtual workplaces? They no longer need to go very far from home in order to find a job, which was never the case.

[00:13:42] Pre pandemic. There is an entire network now of virtual work. , and it's just a matter of how we connect kids better to those opportunities because it's not something we've ever had to think about before. Mm-hmm. , um, just the idea of applying for something virtually or managing that, [00:14:00] that virtual process, it has opened up a huge number of opportunities to students both through virtual work-based learning and, you know, full-time employment.

[00:14:09] Uh, but it's also a skillset that kids need to figure out how to navigate and whether or not it's one, they like the, the research from our first. , um, year of, of the internship, there were some kids that basically said, this is not a way I ever wanna work again. Right. That is a lesson learned, and we think that's a great outcome.

[00:14:27] You know, they will try something different. They will not put themselves in a situation in the future where that is, that's the way that they have to work. They'll look for other opportunities. So that learning in and of itself is a, is a huge plus for.

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[00:15:50] I've worked remote for a really long time and like an interesting thing where like you're talking about like almost teaching people how to do that. You know, like it is sort of just like, okay, like just, [00:16:00] you know, do our due diligence here to. , you know, talk through some of the best practices and everything where like people were doing it before mm-hmm.

[00:16:06] but I'd never had anything like that. But I'm glad that now it exists of like, okay, let's teach people how to, you know, how to do this better. 

[00:16:12] Julie Lamers: Um, it's a time management thing, right? Right. It's, it's a lot of the skills that you might work do when you're in an office, but you have to think through differently because you're no longer face to face with somebody.

[00:16:22] Mm-hmm. . Um, and it's a whole new skillset for kids to learn. 

[00:16:25] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah. Um, so that's really cool. Yeah. I mean it's, it's like it adds a little bit more complexity. , there's also just like a lot of new opportunities and everything. So that's, that's really great. You know, this work is very, you know, longitudinal and it's very complex.

[00:16:39] It's, you know, there's a lot going on and I like to sort of like take a moment sometimes with people who do this sort of, you know, complex work across higher education. Like, and you've obviously been at ASA for a long time and the work has, has changed and everything. So like, what keeps you motivated?

[00:16:52] What keeps you excited? Like what are you, you know, looking forward to for the future and everything? So I think like we're in an interesting place in, you know, the year of [00:17:00] 2023, where, Last year was kind of weird still after coming out of like many, you know, a couple of weird years and, but like I'm the external optimist.

[00:17:08] I think there's a lot of opportunities to seeing how people are sort of, you know, keeping themselves motivated and looking ahead with, with optimism as well is always refreshing to hear. So, 

[00:17:16] Julie Lamers: yeah. So I think, um, in, there are a couple of things that keep me motivated. I think one, we have seen a lot of change and positive momentum in the policy space.

[00:17:26] Work-based learning, workforce development issues are one of the few bipartisan issues these days. I think it, there are, there are certainly nuances in. What people think should happen, but it is universally one of those issues that people can come together on. Uh, and there's been a lot of, of conversation about how to sort of move the needle from a policy standpoint.

[00:17:46] And so that is definitely motivating. It's, it's, it can. Be very frustrating, um, when you're talking about policies that don't go anywhere, but there is a sort of joint view that, that something needs to get done [00:18:00] to, to help kids, um, be better prepared for the workforce. And so I think that's, that's really positive.

[00:18:05] But I think then there's also just our interactions with the students that we serve. We had a couple of students from one of our grantee organizations in the office, uh, not that long ago, uh, just so they could get exposure to what we do and, um, for one of the students who is from the inner city. He had never actually been on the public transportation system.

[00:18:28] Um, he'd never been in an elevator before. And so the idea of going into that environment was so overwhelming to him, um, prior to that exposure, and now he is much more open to. exploring his own city more to thinking about new opportunities for himself. You, we don't necessarily see day to day the impact that we're having.

[00:18:49] Um, but when you see an experience like that and how just exposure to new things can change a young person's life, it really, you know, motivates you to, to wanna do more. [00:19:00] 

[00:19:00] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah. Well, and I think kind of a similar anecdote for myself is like, I. You know, I navigated my own, you know, higher ed journey and could have, you know, greatly benefited from the work like you all do and everything.

[00:19:11] Like, I like have tried to put myself out there to do those kind of things and seeing like those same positive impacts and what I thought about of like, you know, navigating a city and river is like, I still feel like I get sort of a like magic of like, oh, look at the city and all that. So it's like, you know, you've sort of like charted this like, you know, uh, getting outside of your comfort zone and then sort of like, Honoring that sort of earnest feeling of like, wow, you know, like I still get to do these things and all this stuff.

[00:19:37] And like, so I think that's like, that's part of like, there's so much of like an emotional impact of like, wow. Like I, I've seen my potential, I've seen the opportunities that are out there. I've been sort of, you know, guided through and sort of supported to, you know, have the self-discovery and see what I'm truly capable of and everything.

[00:19:51] So, um, it is really like powerful stuff just in terms of like, if you need a little like shot in the arm kind of thing. It's just like getting one of those little like stories, those anecdotes [00:20:00] can be really, really interesting. Yeah, 

[00:20:01] Julie Lamers: absolutely. And just sort of the individual impacts that you can have. Um, you know, we're a fairly large organization and so we don't get to interact with all of the kids that we serve.

[00:20:09] Um, but it just seeing it just sort of seeing it is really is really wonderful. 

[00:20:15] Dustin Ramsdell: And yeah. You'd mentioned policy, so I wanted to kind of like, uh, as we're kind of winding down, like kind of give that a sort of a, a moment mm-hmm. to emphasize cuz. , I've been noticing exactly what you're saying is that like, it's sort of, you know, in the ether a little bit more of, um, like the reforms for, uh, funding for incarcerated individuals, like in, uh, getting their higher education or a lot of conversation about like, should we extend like Pell grants and other funding for like, you know, short term credentials.

[00:20:40] Mm-hmm. and those sort of things. So, um, I guess just broadly cuz like you said, like there's a lot of sort of zig Zers ags and ways that we could kind of get to sort of, you know, helping, uh, students being informed, like higher ed choices or how they're funding things or what they're doing and those, all that.

[00:20:54] But like, yeah, like how do you see policy playing a role here in just sort of the work that you do? Yeah. [00:21:00] Um, broadly, 

[00:21:01] Julie Lamers: so I think there's, there's two ways. So on the federal level, there has been a lot more attention on how do we. Federal systems to make them work more effectively for students. So, um, you know, the Biden administration actually just recently announced a new initiative called Raise the Bar, unlocking career success, I think is what it's called.

[00:21:21] Um, and it's thinking about how do you align, you know, education, labor, and commerce to really think about, from sort of a student perspective, how do you get kids from. the education system into the workforce. Um, and so giving direction to states about how they can use American rescue plan funds for workforce development issues, they're gonna be announcing, um, a competitive grant in the next couple of months, specifically for innovations in work-based learning.

[00:21:47] Uh, so that that type of sort of bully pulpit from the federal government has really important to think about. How do you mobilize people to, to rethink how they're doing? because, because [00:22:00] the federal. Pretty is very, you know, separate. A lot of this work happens through one piece of legislation called the Perkins Career and Technical Education Act.

[00:22:09] There's other stuff that happens through the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, other things in the Higher Ed Act. So everything is, is very sort of broken up. It's not really thought about from a. Student perspective, how does student A student get from point A to point B? Um, so that bully pulpit really of the federal government and directing federal resources is important on the state level.

[00:22:28] States are similarly thinking about how do we align, align all of our state systems to be less, um, focused on sort of their individual task of, you know, this is what the labor department does and this is what education does to how do we create a whole scale system that works well for students. You know, your home state of Delaware does this fairly well.

[00:22:50] Um, they, they launched a Pathway program a number of years ago and, uh, have really effectively aligned a lot of state systems [00:23:00] to think about this particular issue. We actually, uh, funded part of that initiative in, uh, the middle school space to try to, um, take it. High school down into middle school and help kids think a little bit more about why they're making certain high school decisions, as well as why they're making post-secondary decisions.

[00:23:18] Um, and, and how do they understand themselves in their own sort of personal interests at a much earlier age. So state systems are beginning to align around these issues as well. Um, developing much more robust, um, career exploration programming, uh, work-based learning programs in high schools. Establish.

[00:23:39] You know, career and academic plans for students so that they're thinking through these opportunities, um, and really trying to break down silos. And then, I don't think we're anywhere near where we need to be, but break down silos of this idea that it's either college or career, right? It has to be an alignment of college and career because all kids need both post-secondary education.

[00:23:59] aligned with [00:24:00] a long-term career goal. Um, so it, you know, I think that's the direction that we're moving and there's really pockets of excellence happening throughout states, uh, in a lot of, in a lot of these ways. Um, so, you know, I'm hopeful that we can make some progress for the next couple years. 

[00:24:15] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah.

[00:24:16] Yeah. It is interesting. Yeah, cuz it's like, like you said, it's sort of, you know, this fragmented, you know, federal policy landscape and everything and seeing like yeah. Whether it is from federal or state that. . Yeah. Part of it's like, how is the student funding their, you know, cho chosen, uh, you know, education option, but then like, like grants and different things to sort of like create more options.

[00:24:38] Mm-hmm. , like create just, you know, various sort of, uh, programs and support structures and, and those sort of things. Cause I think like, It's like you kind of have to like, I guess it's kind of like a chicken or the egg thing where it's just like, hey, well, like I don't have anything to choose from. Like I got all the money in the world, all this funding and, you know, uh, grants or whatever for me as like an individual.

[00:24:56] But then it's like, there's not what I'm looking for out there or not, not [00:25:00] something that's gonna be effective for me. Yeah. You know? Cause I think that's what I see a lot too, where like, you know, it's refreshing where like, yeah, we have this program and we have like coaches and all the, you know, so they've like really sort of holistically wrapped around that student to you.

[00:25:14] get them to wherever it is that they want to go versus just like, well, you know, you could come study and do whatever, and it's, you know, good luck to you. Right. Um, 

[00:25:21] Julie Lamers: so yeah, and I think that work workforce p issue is, is an important one. You know, we, there were, we've seen a lot of movement on it the last couple of years.

[00:25:28] There's been a lot of discussion, obviously concerns about. Quality of program and how do you ensure that, um, students are getting the types of services they need? And I think those definitely need to be ironed out. But, but the, the idea of, uh, being more flexible in the types of programs that students can, um, can choose and, and sort of trying to encourage the fact that there are programs and effective training.

[00:25:52] Or education that can be done in a much shorter period of time than the traditional 16 week semester. Um, you know, [00:26:00] we need to encourage that because there are a lot of kids for whom four months of studying is, is too much for them, right? They need to get into the workforce faster. And if they can get a credential paid for by a Pell Grant in a shorter amount of time, uh, it may be something we should be encouraging.

[00:26:15] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah. Well, I totally agree, . Um, cause yeah, I think like what I've thought a lot about. If you can get someone to that credential and then they're gainfully employed and then if they wanna pursue, like, it's almost kind like a something else sort of, you know, leapfrogging kind of thing where it's like, okay, you studied to get a credential to get a job that can support you to get another cred.

[00:26:33] Like, and you can sort of keep furthering your education and career that way. Where like, you know, seeing the stuff with like, you know, AWS or Google, like, you can get these like certificates and stuff and it's like, yeah, you can get a pretty gainful job, you know, gainfully employing job. And uh, and 

[00:26:46] Julie Lamers: I, I think that takes a mindset shift.

[00:26:49] To, to think about the fact that the higher education is not the, you know, the traditional model that we've always assumed it was. It needs to be different for a student's individual needs. Um, [00:27:00] and, uh, I think that's the direction we're, we're headed. Mm-hmm. . 

[00:27:03] Dustin Ramsdell: Well, as we wrap up, always just like to give folks an opportunity to share resources at our own or stuff that they're.

[00:27:10] Kind of seeing out there. Books, articles, podcast are certainly, you know, we're at South by and I mean, it's day two. There's only one day of sessions so far, or you know, uh, and I know you all are putting on a lot of sessions and things. Um, here at the, at the event. But, um, yeah, just anything that you wanna share that we can put in the 

[00:27:24] Julie Lamers: show notes.

[00:27:24] Yeah. So, um, you know, we, our digital resources are free and available to all students. Um, I think they can be found@www.asa.org. Um, we've got a few, there are, um, there's one called Future Network, which is a series of, uh, videos. YouTube videos of young people, uh, talking to professionals about career options, about pitching their parents on how they wanna be, things like comedy writers.

[00:27:51] And how would you pitch your parents on the idea of maybe not going to a traditional four year school? Uh, so there's a series of videos really to try to get kids thinking [00:28:00] about. How would I approach these, these types of topics. Uh, there's also our, our, um, future planning tool called futurescape, which is, uh, allows kids to put in some of their, their interests and, and understand what career possibilities there are.

[00:28:18] Uh, and then we have a tool called Next Voice that helps kids build, um, sort of self-advocacy skills. Uh, and uh, you know, we think that's really important, not only from the perspective of. Being involved in the issues that you care about. But, uh, those advocacy skills will be really important as a professional as well.

[00:28:36] Uh, and oh, something that we think, uh, are really, uh, necessary for kids to continue to 

[00:28:41] Dustin Ramsdell: build. Awesome. Yeah, I appreciate you, uh, just highlight a couple of those resources there. Um, And then, uh, we'll end as we always do a final thought call to action to wrap everything up, uh, for our conversation today.

[00:28:54] Yeah, 

[00:28:54] Julie Lamers: so I think, you know, we really need to think about how do, how are we ensuring that kids have [00:29:00] greater opportunity at a much earlier age to explore their career possibilities? Um, and that might be, you know, becoming a mentor to a young person to help them think through what those options are. It might be offering a job shadow.

[00:29:14] Participating in a career fair, um, we all have a collective responsibility to make sure that there's greater opportunity for these experiences. Um, we can't rely solely on the school systems that are already very busy with other things, um, to do it. So, you know, we collectively and from the employer community, higher ed, post-secondary space in general, um, have to be actively participating, um, to make sure that students have, have what they need to.

[00:29:39] Dustin Ramsdell: Awesome. Beautiful way to end the episode. Wrap everything up, and, uh, as usual, we'll have ways to connect with you in Asa, um, in the, in the show notes for the episode. But, uh, just thank you for hanging out, taking a few minutes, uh, outta your day to, to chat with me. And yeah, it's, it was a really great conversation.

[00:29:53] Thank you so much.[00:30:00] 

[00:30:06] Julie Lamers: Hey yall, Zach here from Enrollify. If you like this podcast, chances are you'll like other enrollify shows too. Our podcast network is growing by the month and we've got a plethora of marketing admissions. And higher ed technology shows that are jam packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks that are all designed to empower you to become a better higher ed professional.

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