Teresa Valerio Parrot on the Complicated Climate for Higher Ed Communications

Full Transcript

Enrollify_HigherEdGeek_Audio_Episode187_TeresaValerioParrot_Version1

[00:00:00] Dustin Ramsdell: So we are here on what is, it's one of the first very warm days here in Delaware for me. So I'm, I'm very excited for, uh, spring to finally sprung. But, uh, we are also with a guest who, uh, Her reputation procedure. She was also recommended by Josie Alquist. I've interviewed a few times in the show and I've known her for a while, so I'm very excited to have this conversation for me to get to know her a little bit better and for other folks to get to know her a little bit better as well.

[00:00:29] But she's been out and about doing a lot of great things. We'll be trying to get to as much of it, uh, as we can on the, on the show here today. But we will have you, uh, introduce yourself. Uh, Theresa, if you wanna just give kind of the quick Twitter bio elevator pitch of your background and how you get to be where you are today.

[00:00:43] Teresa Valerio Parrot: My name is Tressa Valerio Parrot. I'm principal of TP Communications and proud to say that Tbp Communications is now 12 years old, and we provide communications and leadership council to boards, presidents, vice presidents, and marketing and communications units. I'm also [00:01:00] co-editor of the Inside Higher Ed Call to Action Blog, which is focused on marketing and communications topics, and I'm co-host of the Trusted Voices.

[00:01:08] Podcast. I sit on a number of boards and committees and commissions for higher education. And, uh, just wanna call out two of those. One is I'm on the P R S A, so that's Public Relations Society of Americas Board of Directors, and I represent the Western District. And I also am on the American Marketing Association, or AMAs Planning Committee for the Symposium for the Marketing of Higher.

[00:01:33] And I just successfully defended my dissertation for my doctoral degree last week. 

[00:01:40] Dustin Ramsdell: Very exciting. Thank you. Uh, labor of love for so many people and uh, it 

[00:01:45] Teresa Valerio Parrot: has been a thing. 

[00:01:47] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah. Well it's kind of funny cuz I think like, maybe it's like people like were like slowing down, like during the pandemic or started during it or something, but like, I just feel like a lot of people I've been following or maybe it's just like, I'm getting to be that age, or that's sort of like a thing that people are doing now.

[00:01:59] You know, like [00:02:00] obviously people would've been doing it like 10 years ago that like, I, I necessarily was like super close with, but just like, just a wave of people like doing dissertation defenses, which is, uh, super awesome. 

[00:02:08] Teresa Valerio Parrot: Well, and I think it's because when the pandemic hit, I decided, well, I have no idea what.

[00:02:14] Workload is gonna look like. So maybe this is a time for me to go back and get my doctoral degree. And little did I know work was actually gonna get that much busier, so I added that on as I was also then navigating, uh uh, the pandemic with everybody else as well. But I think you're right. I have been just loving, liking and supporting all of the posts that I'm seeing and it's pretty fantastic.

[00:02:36] Dustin Ramsdell: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, cause I think that is where it's. Yeah, a lot of people thought that they would be like less busy, but it was just like, oh no, I'm just like busy in a different way. Like certain things like went away for sure, but then they were just like replacing something different or whatever, you know?

[00:02:49] Um, but yeah, I mean obviously you have a lot of different involvements. I guess it's just sort of like one sort of follow up question. Obviously a lot of it is, you know, just sort of like communication sort of focus, you know, like kinda [00:03:00] public, uh, relations and outreach and everything. Sort of like, uh, I guess for some of them I guess you maybe are bringing in.

[00:03:07] I assume like a unique sort of higher ed perspective maybe to like, you know, p R s S a mm-hmm. Like, and those sort of things like, but I guess just like, um, what do all those sort of different involvements sort of like give you, or what do you feel like you give to that? Like just sort of talking through those?

[00:03:20] Mm-hmm. Cause I think like, you know, to some people that those are sort of involvements that are very attractive to them or like they wanna sort of aspire towards and just sort of like how that sort of all kind of fits together for. 

[00:03:31] Teresa Valerio Parrot: I think what they provide for me and um, I would love to talk about this later, is that I still see myself as participating in professional development.

[00:03:40] And I think that's fascinating because when I got to a certain point in my career, I think people thought that. Now I provide knowledge back, which I do and I'm pleased to do, but I'm still looking for ways that I can continue to learn. And there's still so much for all of us to learn about higher education and how it works and also our professions.

[00:03:57] And so for each of my board opportunities, what [00:04:00] I really like to do is to think what can I contribute? And also how can I grow either as a leader or as a practitioner, or is. A human being. Um, and so it's been interesting to me to take on these different roles and um, to really immerse myself in them. And I think for some of the boards, we've all had a group project because the board is basically one big group project, right?

[00:04:21] Where um, some people don't participate as much as others. And I'm happy to say that even in my board roles, I'm still that person who's going. All of what I need to give and possibly pick up some of the work of others who just don't have the time or the energy to do it. 

[00:04:35] Dustin Ramsdell: Mm-hmm. That's a really good point.

[00:04:36] I mean, honestly, like we'll absolutely link out to all those great organizations so folks can check them out. I think that is, yes. Honestly, kind of a refreshing kind of perspective on that idea where it's like, I'm doing this like yes to sort of like give back and give to others and all these sort of things, but it's like this is also a learning opportunity for me.

[00:04:53] Like, cause it could even be just like, How do you plan a conference? What's that like? Like that's like a learning opportunity, but then like, you know, [00:05:00] yeah, like kinda networking and learning from other people, but then just sort of having, uh, you know, different vantage points on like communities and how, you know, these people learn from each other and how you can kind of structure facilitate that.

[00:05:10] So like, you know, obviously like it's. Industry knowledge that you're sort of continually mm-hmm. Making yourself kind of privy to, but then like all those other little kind of nooks and crannies of stuff that can be very transferable and applicable, um, you know, to, to your daily work and everything. So, 

[00:05:25] Teresa Valerio Parrot: um, well, and it's interesting.

[00:05:26] I love that you mentioned Josie, because I adore Josie Alquist and, um, she, uh, About, maybe about two years ago approached me and asked if I would be her mentor. And I said, absolutely. But that's, I think mentoring is a two-way street because I think I have experiences that I can share with her and advice that I can give to her.

[00:05:43] And also she has a whole career of experiences that I wanna tap into as well. And it kind of took her aback and she said she's asked other people to be mentors and they've accepted, but they've. Pushed back and said, and what can I learn from you? And I think that's kind of how I approach so many different things is that [00:06:00] I don't know everything and I'm fine with not knowing everything, but I wanna know more.

[00:06:04] Um, and Josie has been fantastic about helping me navigate some different areas and, and think about. How I present myself, whether it's on social or you know, how I'm kind of framing different items. And, uh, I'd love to talk to you about the podcast that I co-host because it was really Josie's idea. It was as she and I were talking and she was saying, you know what you might wanna do and you might enjoy, why don't you host a podcast?

[00:06:26] And to hear her say that was not just affirming, but also made me stop and think, yeah, maybe I do wanna do that. I think we all need those kind of friendships and also those kind of, um, relationships that go both. 

[00:06:38] Dustin Ramsdell: I appreciate that sort of like inherent humility where it's like that kind of like curiosity, that openness, that sort of just like, kind of like authentic, where it's like, hey, I know a lot.

[00:06:46] I don't know everything I, I'm expecting that I will continually learn and, um, I know, uh, kind of almost like for, uh, prep for myself. I listen to your, uh, the episode that you were a guest on of Josie's podcast. So we'll have to link [00:07:00] out to that one. Cause that that one is just like very engaging and like, sort of like lighthearted, but also just like super relevant.

[00:07:05] She's awesome and awesome. So yeah, she, yeah. And that idea of. You know, as somebody that you just like respect or trust. But then it's also like, I think a lot of people nowadays, because like podcasting is a new blogging kind of thing, like, you know, they'll say like, oh, you should podcast, you should podcast.

[00:07:18] But if it's like somebody like her or anybody else, it's like, you know better cuz you do it and you're like, I think you could, and you'd be good at it and like, it'd be, you know, worth your time. But yeah, we can, we can, um, Jump ahead just cuz we kind of set up the segue perfectly for it. Cuz I wanted, I love talking to people that, uh, have kind of taken the plunge into, uh, podcasting a little bit more recently and everything.

[00:07:37] Cause I've been doing this for a long, long time, like, and I love it and I, I find a lot of fulfillment from it myself and being able to sort of, you know, kind of how we're talking, like give to the field and, you know, kind of share knowledge and uh, all that kind of stuff. So what has that experience been like?

[00:07:50] So obviously you got that kind of like affirmation that nudge to kind of look into it and pursue it, but then, What has that experience been like to kind of, you know, put your voice out there on a regular basis and even, I dunno how much [00:08:00] of the technical side of things that you've like gotten into and everything, but yeah, just any reflections on the experience so far?

[00:08:06] Teresa Valerio Parrot: So, um, I had the great pleasure of being on the Higher Voltage Podcast with Kevin Tyler a couple of times, and it was so much fun and just to talk to him and to have the conversation and conversation about what I was thinking about and what was on my mind and what trends I was seeing in higher education and.

[00:08:24] It felt like a natural progression to talk about, um, a show. And, um, one of the people I had had, um, some joint opportunities with as someone I work with, her name is Erin Hennessy, and she's amazing. She's executive VP at T V P communications and it made sense for us to go ahead and have, uh, a co-hosted podcast.

[00:08:44] And part of the reason we did that is we learned during all of the Zoom happy hours that we all used to. That we loved to banter back and forth and people would just sit and watch us as if it was like a television show and it was supposed to be, you know, a, a happy hour. [00:09:00] We were all supposed to just talk about how we were doing, and I think that we knew we had something there.

[00:09:04] So, um, We have a joint production with TP Communications and Volt, um, for the Trusted Voices podcast, and it's just been so much fun. Um, I'm pleased to say I do nothing on the technical side and I'm absolutely happy with that because I would probably break something. Um, but it is fun to just sit and brainstorm about who do we think are trusted voices and what can they share, and what does this look like?

[00:09:29] We know that we have this very unique spot where we are able to talk to leaders that others wouldn't be able to talk with. So for us to be able to introduce them to others and talk about, um, their leadership and their expertise and their experiences has just been. Awesome. So we're enjoying the experience and we're pleased.

[00:09:49] We're only, this is our fourth, fifth episode. Um, and it comes in two episode, um, packages, if you will. We're loving it. So our first episode, we do have that [00:10:00] banter, and then we interview a guest. And then our second episode within that package is us debriefing what the guest said, um, and kind of pulling out what we thought the, the best nuggets were of their leadership.

[00:10:12] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah, I mean, that is, I don't know if I've ever like vocalized this, but like my sort of pipe dream, if I were to like, you know, have sort of like all the time and money in the world or whatever is like, I wish that I could have sort of a like regular co-host or like a panel, you know, like, cause there's shows that I follow.

[00:10:29] I'm just like, I want that, like that sort of Yeah, the banter, the camaraderie, the whatever, like. Right. I've always rode solo and like for a lot of the journey up until, you know, uh, now like joining, uh, with the enroll fire folks is like, I was doing all the editing and all that kind of stuff. So it's like, that's kinda a frontier where just like, like I always kinda want like a radio show or something, you know, just sort of like, you know, you hop on and you talk about stuff or something, but, um, I mean that's like a companion show in the future or something.

[00:10:54] Right. Um, 

[00:10:55] Teresa Valerio Parrot: well, let me know if you're ever in. Because I think there is something that, you know, and this goes back [00:11:00] to, you know, when we go to conferences or when we do different things, I think so much of the best conversation is what happens in the hallway, right? And in some ways that's what we're giving people, and that's what you're talking about too, is it's that human interaction that's so different than kind of how we button ourselves up for an episode about whatever the topic might be.

[00:11:18] And that adds humanity, but it also adds what we all really face day-to-day in higher educat. I can 

[00:11:24] Dustin Ramsdell: talk about this for the entire episode, so we'll, we'll, we'll leave it there, but, cause I wanted to make sure that we also, uh, kinda showed a light and helped uplift, uh, the dissertation that you were, you know, uh, just talking about finishing and, you know, uh, passing your defense and everything.

[00:11:37] Um, just kind of giving kind of a quick sort of, uh, you know, explanation of like, you know, what the, what the topic was, how that came to be, and just sort of reflections on, on that. 

[00:11:46] Teresa Valerio Parrot: Well, perfect. Um, when I started my career in higher education, many moons ago, I was at the University of Colorado system and I worked for the governing board during some.

[00:11:56] Very interesting crisis filled gears tied to intercollegiate athletics. [00:12:00] And so I've spent the last number of years, uh, thinking what could my board have done better or differently at that time? And what should we have done for our student athletes and the students across the campuses at that time as well?

[00:12:15] So I've had this in the back of my mind and when we started talking about what are passion topics. Interestingly, everybody chose topics that were more closely aligned with what they do in their realtime jobs. That would've been smarter. I should have written something on like communications. Um, but I still had this in the back of my mind about what could the board have done differently and how could I have advised them with the knowledge I have now.

[00:12:40] So I'll read you the title. It's a mouthful. I love it. Um, it's presidential in board Governance of Division one, intercollegiate Athletic. How do the players, the rules, the games influence, temple's, prestige, and position. And it was so much fun to write. Um, [00:13:00] I chose to attend Southern Methodist University.

[00:13:02] Um, based on the faculty there. I wanted the preeminent expert on presidential, um, leadership and the preeminent expert on board governance to be on my, um, committee and was so pleased to have them join. And then earlier in my career, I was able to staff the night commission, which is the, um, athletics watchdog.

[00:13:22] And one of the co-chairs at that time, his name was Brit Kerwin. He was just phenomenal and amazing. So he's the former president at Maryland College Park, former president of the Ohio State University, uh, president, I think Chancellor Emeritus of the Maryland system. And he chaired the night Commission for 12 years, and he was my third committee member.

[00:13:43] He was awesome. And to be able to have three leading experts in the country allowing me to just have. What if project? I don't know that I'll ever have that kind of an experience again, and I could not be more honored.[00:14:00] 

[00:14:01] Dustin Ramsdell: Let's play a game. What keywords has your website rang for? What doesn't it rank for that you think it should? What are a few opportunities you give you winning on? If you tweaked some website copy. Okay. How'd you do? Not? Great. That's okay. Because our friends at DD Agency want to answer all of those questions for you and then.

[00:14:20] DD Agency is a higher ed specific marketing technology agency that has conducted countless SEO audits for colleges and universities across the country. In these audits, they detail where you currently rank what you can be ranking for, exactly how copy should be tweaked on website pages and much more.

[00:14:36] If this sounds like something you could benefit from, give those folks a ping and be sure to mention that Enroll I sent you to claim a 10% discount on any of their SEO offerings. Head on over to enroll fify.org/dd seo or simply follow the link of the show notes below. That will guarantee you a 10% discount off of your audit.

[00:14:55] Again, head on over to enroll five.org/dda [00:15:00] SEO to learn more now on to the show.

[00:15:08] Yeah, it's interesting cause like I know, uh, yeah, just the athletics, like, I mean, uh, as the name would apply, being a higher ed geek, I'm not, uh, particularly athletically inclined. Uh, but, uh, nor am I, I think just like, you know, observing this space and obviously it's so. Integral to the higher ed experience and like mm-hmm.

[00:15:29] Like you said, it's like, mm-hmm. I think that was really awesome of you to kind of like, how can I bring my experience, my background to this thing that, you know, uh, Yeah. Sort of like, yeah. Others might have seen like, oh, that's so like tangential or whatever. But like, but it's so kind of core to so many, you know, institutional brands and so many student experiences and Yes.

[00:15:48] You know, whether you are a fan watching in the stands and builds your school spirit or, you know, playing out in the field kind of thing. So I think just like, you know, that. Acknowledgement and like that kind of recognition and then being [00:16:00] like, all right, let's, let's dive in, let's, you know, explore how we can sort of bring sort of the, the comms expertise that you have, uh, to that space and everything.

[00:16:08] Um, because it's, you know, I dunno, just like for the rest of higher ed, I think in this moment kind of, uh, trying to tee up kinda my next question, but like, you know, that there's. Just a lot of sort of like public scrutiny or sort of, you know, there's a lot of eyes on them. Yes. So it's like, you know, athletics can be one lightning rod in addition to a lot of others.

[00:16:27] So I think, uh, Yeah, I'm sure it's just going to be very much appreciated, you know, this, uh, sort of contribution of knowledge to sort of the, uh, the greater field of, uh, you know, of higher ed and everything. So, um, yeah, that's really Well, 

[00:16:40] Teresa Valerio Parrot: and I know you and I have talked about trends, right? What are we seeing in what is it that's going on in higher education now?

[00:16:47] And I think you've hit upon the one that I think is the biggest issue that I'm seeing in my world, and that is, Everybody wants to know what the value of higher education is. There's so much scrutiny, there's so much [00:17:00] critique. There's so much that we are now finally, um, quantifying and we're trying to make the case for what it is that we do.

[00:17:07] But I also feel like I am spending my time encouraging institutions to double down on authenticity and truthfulness, and that extends across an institution, whether it's about athletics or it's about academics, about the economic mobility we provide, whatever it might be. I don't think that we can just continue to say, uh, what we want to say about what we do, but instead we need to share examples and data and we need to live what it is that we're promising our audiences.

[00:17:36] So I feel like this trend of, uh, Truthfulness is something that I really value and I hope continues. Um, but I'll be curious to see what happens, especially should that conversation about the value shift or maybe lessen. Mm-hmm. I don't know that it's gonna lessen, but you never know. 

[00:17:55] Dustin Ramsdell: No. Well, yeah, and I mean, I, you know, consume enough, you know, kind of like podcast [00:18:00] and other, uh, content on higher ed where like, you know, People where it's like the federal government, like from one sort of like major constituent and stakeholder like invests a lot in higher education.

[00:18:09] So they have a lot of expectations and sort of strings attached to that. And then like, sort of similarly, because like taxpayers, you know, that those are their dollars that are sort of being funneled through to higher education. Like they, you know, understandably have sort of a, you know, an expectation of like, yeah, like what is the value of all this?

[00:18:24] Like what, what, what are the outcomes? And I think, uh, I'm curious on, on, cause I think that it's gonna be, Like on this very big ex existential level, how higher ed sort of responds and grapples and kind of interfaces with this sort of line. I think, you know, the communication, sort of the PR of it all mm-hmm.

[00:18:43] Will be very important. Mm-hmm. So the idea that mm-hmm. You know, in a lot of states, and I think you're just seeing this being like a, a long tread line, is that like the era. Higher ed autonomy is potentially like being challenged or, uh, you know, yes. Going like towards the horizon. I don't know, like some sort [00:19:00] of metaphor or whatever because like, you know, tenure and how they, you know, in certain states are investing in d e I initiatives and everything.

[00:19:08] So like do you think that that is what kind of like, cuz they Yeah, absolutely. The sort of like the value of. Has been and will continue to be this sort of huge existential question, but then just like how higher ed sort of, uh, Understands almost like it's limitations or something where it's just like that idea like, well hey, well we've been here for 200 years and we've never had to like, you know, deal with this and I don't think we ever should.

[00:19:31] Whatever. Like that could be how some institutions sort of like grapple with sort of like right scrutiny or you know, what some would say is like accountability or those sort of things. So like what are your thoughts on that of just sort of some of these other sort of big existential sort of issues and how higher ed sort of right.

[00:19:48] Communicates about them. 

[00:19:50] Teresa Valerio Parrot: I feel like, um, higher education is always political and I think that's one thing for people to remember. It has always been in the middle of, uh, politicalization in this [00:20:00] country. I think for many of the topics that have been raised, we've been able to just wait out the storm. If you just wait long enough, then um, it's gonna go ahead and go away.

[00:20:10] And what we're seeing is that it is becoming a perfect storm because we could always say, we don't necessarily have to weigh in on this because we have the strength of enrollment and not all institutions do now. And we used to be able to say, we're okay to kind of just weather the storm because our state support is strong and that doesn't exactly exist everywhere.

[00:20:30] So I think there is this moment where if we look at the collect. Um, energy that we're seeing. I think it really is an interesting time for higher education because there isn't one part of higher ed right now that isn't being questioned by elected officials in a state somewhere, whether it's students, and you can go to d e I, you can go to WHO and how we enroll.

[00:20:53] It could be a number of different topics to faculty. Who do we hire? What do they teach, all the way to the curricular level. [00:21:00] And, um, what are their beliefs to athletics? We have all of the changes with N I l, um, so name, image, likeness, and the transfer portal. And what do we do with Title ix? There doesn't seem to be a part of our industry that isn't.

[00:21:15] Being critiqued and potentially isn't vulnerable. So I think it's this interesting time for the associations and the collectives of institutions to say, how do we talk about what we do more holistically as an industry, but also not miss the moment for individual campuses to also talk about what they do well?

[00:21:35] Um, For their students and for their communities. And it seems to be, we think it has to be one or the other. And I don't think that we will have a strong industry if we treat it as if it's one or the other has to be 

[00:21:47] Dustin Ramsdell: both. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Yeah. The idea that like, We've been able to sort of just like bid our time, you know, like, yeah, like weather these storms, but like this moment, we'll just wait it out, right?

[00:21:57] This, this moment requires a [00:22:00] response instead of, you know, being like, okay, everybody here, we're gonna show our work. We're gonna engage, we're gonna right. Adapt to this moment, or to the sort of demands that are being put upon. Uh, so sort of a, you know, an individual institution or just sort of a, an industry, but like, um, so one I'll, I'll, I'll have to put this in the show notes.

[00:22:16] Like, I literally finished listening to it before I got on here, so I think that's why it's like jumbling around my brain and I'm trying to like connect the dots on air here right now as I'm recording of this episode. Most recent inside Higher ed, the key podcast what's with, uh, ACE lobbyists who'd worked there for like 30 years and you know, he is talking about a lot of the similar stuff, I think to kinda what you're saying about like, you know, Is always kind of political to an extent and that, you know, the, uh, sort of scrutiny and accountability from the federal government and stuff, you know, sort of justified as the investment has increased and everything.

[00:22:42] But it's a very interesting time. I mean, obviously yeah, you just like listed off a laundry list of things that are sort of like, you know, right. Uh, needing to kind of be adapted, like specifically, um, and. Yeah. I mean, it's just like they, institutions can't rest on their laurels anymore. And I think that that's kind of [00:23:00] like the sort of takeaway here is like, well, they need to, they need to engage, they need to respond, they need to, you know, you know, be transparent and sort of, uh, you know, what they're doing for students and what the outcomes are and, and those sort 

[00:23:11] Teresa Valerio Parrot: of things.

[00:23:11] Right. And I think part of that reason is because that we've always just been able to say, well, let's just wait this out, is because the public hasn't really engaged in this. Right. We've. Whether it's at the state level or the federal level, different elected officials who use higher education as one of their favorite soapbox issues, but the public hasn't really engaged.

[00:23:31] And what we're seeing now is that the public is engaging and they're saying, is this worth our money? Is this worth our time? Are my children getting what they thought it would? They would get out of a degree. Am I able to pay back my own student loans? The conversation. Shifted so that it wasn't a conversation before.

[00:23:47] Instead, it was sort of these statements and attempts to draw people in and now they've been successfully drawn in, so we need to be thinking a little bit differently about it. I don't think that we can go back to just saying, I'm gonna wait [00:24:00] this out. I think it has to be something that we're much more intentional about moving forward and.

[00:24:05] And truly thinking about where are we vulnerable, not just where do we want to be questioned if we're vulnerable, because we're not asking some of the deeper questions of ourselves. Maybe because we're afraid of what those answers might be, but the public is asking those questions. 

[00:24:22] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah. And I think it's like, yeah, because like so much of higher ed is sort of this like, you know, it is like the ivory tower or whatever metaphor you wanna, right.

[00:24:29] Sort of black box, whatever. Um, and, uh, Yeah, it's just like on principle, sort of like the, the, you know, transparency is not, not a bad thing and especially if you know that you are doing right by students and you know, uh, all those sort of things. But, um, yeah, it's just like, cause I think there's like, A human nature kind of thing of just sort of like, it's like the mystery box.

[00:24:55] Cause it could be like, oh, like we don't know what's in there. So anything could be in there. Like, we don't know what they're doing. They could be doing anything, [00:25:00] who know, whatever. Um, and then you start to like, have that enter in or you know, you can kind of go down some kind of irrelevant path because you just don't know.

[00:25:08] You don't know what's going on. And I think, um, right. I think, and maybe if this is sort of the last sort of, um, aspect of this, just to have you kinda respond to, is that like you. The idea is like, if you don't show up to the table, it's like, well, they're still gonna make decisions just without you there, like without your input.

[00:25:26] Like that's my sort of thought is like, if you're not really, truly, deeply, authentically, transparently engaging, you know, say your Republican institution with your state legislature or something, it's like, then you're just gonna be sort of like, you know, Getting these mandates of like what you can't or can't do, uh, at your campus.

[00:25:42] So it's like you, you need to try to hopefully at least, you know, affect the outcome in some way by, you know, your, your comms and how you engage your stakeholders and constituents and you know, your community. 

[00:25:54] Teresa Valerio Parrot: And I think part of the reason for that is that leaders can be afraid, right? What are the [00:26:00] consequences if we go in this way, direction, or that direction?

[00:26:02] They might be afraid for what this means for their own tenure. They might be afraid for what it means for the institution. And, um, I spend a lot of my time. Counseling and working with presidents to work through to get them to a point of, what I like to say is a calculated level of vulnerability. I don't want them to be whole wholehearted vulnerable in their positions, but you have to be a little bit vulnerable if you are a leader.

[00:26:27] So how do we decide what that looks like and what those topics are that they're willing to put themselves out there on, and how do we make sure that we're. Creating some guardrails so that they do have the ability to participate in leaderly ways and still keep their jobs and keep the public support for their institutions.

[00:26:46] It's a delicate balance in a delicate dance. Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:50] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah. Well, I guess I, I presume because you've engaged in this work, like for me it's like I'm an eternal optimist and just, you know, an advocate for compromise and us working together and let's [00:27:00] like, you know, figure it out. Cause I think it's like if people.

[00:27:03] Like the, the sort of inverse of that is everybody kind of digs their heels in and is not engaging or working together and just sort of, you know, Whatever happens, happens, I guess versus like that idea of like, it is tough, it's complicated. It is probably, you know, a very long trail of, you know, sort of, you know, working together to kind of figure out compromises on, you know, accountability and outcomes and value and all that sort of thing.

[00:27:24] So, um, but it's like, We can figure it out because like, this is all just man-made stuff. So like we create the problems, we can create the solutions. So I think, uh, I am 

[00:27:34] Teresa Valerio Parrot: a realistic optimist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm known for being very much of an optimist, but I need to make sure that I balance that within what's possible.

[00:27:42] Um, so I'm with you. Mm-hmm. And I still, I adore this industry and I adore what it is that we do, and I adore the people who participate in it. And I think that's critically important too. Yeah. 

[00:27:52] Dustin Ramsdell: Yes. Realistic optimist. That's, uh, a great, uh, great tagline or like, put that on your, uh, business card. But as we're wrapping up, we always like to [00:28:00] just kinda give the opportunity for sharing resources and stuff.

[00:28:02] I think, you know, again, need, we got a lot of, uh, great organizations that you do work with and mm-hmm. I don't know if we can, uh, link out to your dissertation in any way or anything, but just like, I think it's good. This is gonna be an episode with a lot of great, uh, stuff for, uh, folks to check out, you know, about the connect with you and for what we've, uh, mentioned here.

[00:28:16] But, um, just anything else that you'd wanna make sure to give kind of a, a call out to. 

[00:28:21] Teresa Valerio Parrot: I want to tell you about a book I'm reading right now. Um, Tia McNair is the author and she is with a A C N U. She wrote a book called From Equity Talk to Equity Walk, expanding Practitioner Knowledge for Racial Justice in Higher Education.

[00:28:37] She's excellent. The book is excellent. Um, I just got to see her speak this past weekend and um, once again, she completely blew my socks off. She is just, Fantastic. Um, so I highly encourage people to, uh, check out that book. Um, I can't get enough of Kevin McClure's research these days. He is the professor at U M U N C, Wilmington.

[00:28:59] Let me [00:29:00] make sure I get all those syllables in there. And he is researching and writing about morale in higher education. He's writing a book. I can't wait for it to come out. I think he's asking a lot of those tough questions and pushing back that the morale issue, that higher education is facing predates the pandemic.

[00:29:16] And, uh, I think he's doing it in a very smart and respectful way. Um, and I love reading his, what he writes. Um, I love Higher Voltage with Kevin Tyler. I mentioned that before. I love, um, future You podcast, which is with Jeff Selingo and Michael Horn. Um, you mentioned Josie, so I'll give one more shout out to Josie in the podcast.

[00:29:37] Um, and I encourage everyone to subscribe to as many newsletters and news emails as they possibly can and then create a. Folder for those. So you can do that in Google. It'll send all of those to the folder, and then when you get a chance, just peruse those because so much is changing so quickly in higher education that I try to spend, spend a little bit of time each day, not just [00:30:00] looking to see what the Chronicle and inside Higher Ed are reporting, but adding in some other, um, uh, trade outlets.

[00:30:08] Higher ed dive and, and some others as well as newspapers from around the country. I love going to, um, small college towns and seeing what their newspaper is reporting every day. Um, because you get to se you get a sense of what it's like to be under that microscope, um, in a college town and in a contained environment, as well as looking at things like the New York Times and the Washington Post.

[00:30:29] How they're covering bigger trends. So create that smart mailbox or you're going to uh, uh, be drowned in emails first thing in the morning. But I think it's really nice to make sure that you're keeping up with what our colleagues are facing around the country. Because as we've been talking about, something may be introduced in one state or one location, but that doesn't mean it's not gonna move to where you're located as well.

[00:30:51] Dustin Ramsdell: Yeah, I mean, cause I think anymore and something that was in that, um, Inside Higher Ed podcast conversation. Was that like the higher ed act has not [00:31:00] been renewed in like 16 years? So like at this point, yes. A lot of the change is happening at the state level and you know, in this country, like some states look to their peers, their neighbors, like, where it's like, oh, okay, like it's working there.

[00:31:13] How can we adapt that here? So yeah, I think that is, uh, that is spot on. We will wrap up then with our final question that we always like to end on, uh, a final thought or call to action on this topic for folks listening, uh, to wrap everyth. 

[00:31:26] Teresa Valerio Parrot: And I'm gonna circle all the way to where we started. And that's just that I would encourage everyone to continue their professional development opportunities and look for ways to expand their community.

[00:31:36] I would be happy to connect with anybody, um, so that I can learn from them and they can learn from me. Um, I hope to see everybody at a m a this fall. We're gonna be in Chicago and I love Chicago. Um, and I also think it makes sense to see where else, um, you can start to bring additional people into. Uh, what you do and share out with them and hear back from them too.

[00:31:56] So I am such a big fan of community and [00:32:00] I don't think there is such a thing as too big of a community. Instead, I think that adds richness to what all of us are learning and um, to what all of us can do in our day-to-day work in higher ed. 

[00:32:11] Dustin Ramsdell: Great sentiment to end on. Uh, thank you so much for hanging out and sharing all it did.

[00:32:14] Uh, we'll have ways to connect with you and everything that you mentioned, uh, in the show notes as usual, but, um, just very much appreciate you for coming on. Appreciate Josie. I'll put that out to the universe for, uh, introducing us. Yes.

[00:32:33] Hey, all Zack here from Enroll Fight. If you like this 

[00:32:36] Teresa Valerio Parrot: podcast, chances are you'll like other enroll FI shows. Our podcast network is growing by the month, and we've got a plethora of marketing admissions and higher ed technology shows that are jam-packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks that are all designed to empower you to become a better higher ed professional.

[00:32:52] Our shows feature a selection of the industry's best as your hosts learn from Mickey baes, 

[00:32:57] Dustin Ramsdell: Jeremy Tier, Jamie Hunt, 

[00:32:59] Teresa Valerio Parrot: Corrin Myers, [00:33:00] Jamie Leason, and many, many more. You can learn more about the Enroll five podcast network at podcasts dot enroll five dot. Our shows help higher ed marketers and admissions professionals find their next big idea.

[00:33:11] Find yours@podcasts.inify.org.