Higher Ed Retargeting Campaigns: Audiences, Content, and Conversion Rate Optimization

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Jamie: Have you ever wondered if there is a different, maybe even a better way to tackle an enrollment or marketing issue? Are there processes or practices in your institution that you wonder why does this exist and why has no one bothered to disrupt it? Or what 

[00:00:19] Shane: about a hot new enrollment marketing trend that you've been asked to jump on but you're not really sure how to do it the right way?

[00:00:27] Or even if it's worth doing at all, 

[00:00:30] Jamie: believe me, we get it. I'm Jamie Gleason, a 20 year veteran of higher ed who has worked both inside and outside the institution and on the vendor side of enrollment marketing. I. 

[00:00:43] Tony: And I'm Tony Fraga, an 18 year recovering higher ed marketer who has seen just about every enrollment marketing model in the industry.

[00:00:50] And we've teamed up to launch the Pivot podcast to take an issue, a hurdle, or an outdated process, and suggest ways [00:01:00] to pivot into a new direction or launch into a better process as much as possible, we'll use actual examples. But we'll try to keep all the takeaways as fresh 

[00:01:10] Jamie: as possible. You'll laugh, heck, you might even cry, but we promise this is a podcast that you won't want to miss.

[00:01:19] The Pivot is proud to be a part of the Enroll fify podcast network, and you can subscribe to this podcast@enrollfify.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:01:33] Shane: Episode 10 We made, this is our first milestone episode. Very exciting talking all things remarketing campaigns. So last week, last episode, we talked about creating new content and we had a little crash course on what a data point was decided. Nobody knew what that was, so we had to switch to a data [00:02:00] sheet.

[00:02:00] So now your one pager sheet this time is we had those four resources. They all. Performed well enough where we wanna promote them again this next cycle. So obviously we're thinking, let's say you did these four resources last year. We get to kind of new cycle now, and you're thinking, I wanna promote those four resources again.

[00:02:21] How would you think about. Promoting them, what would you want to know? And then how would you promote them in a way that it comes off as fresh? Because you can't continue to say, we have this new resource. It's a year old now. A lot of people have seen it that are in your system that may not have.

[00:02:38] Enrolled yet. And so you wanna continue to push it 'cause you put so much time and energy into making it. So just thinking rough thoughts here, what are you using to kind of craft the audience to push this out? Both on paid, but to people you already know, and then how do you kind of run it tactically?

[00:02:55] Meaning what avenues are you using to get this in front of [00:03:00] the people that have already engaged with you or, or new eyes? Um, knowing that it's, you know, an existing resource, not in its first push. 

[00:03:09] Jamie: I think one of the things that is really interesting about this, and I think it's a big takeaway for this kind of a conversation, if people are having this conversation on campus, it's like when we're developing resources, I think there's a, there's a lot to be said about doing a little bit of a crossover, right?

[00:03:29] So it's, the resource is not just for. People who are like completely unaware of your institution and it's just talking about the industry and there's nothing to do with like some of the UV VPs. It's almost like kind of the 80 20 rule where if you're at 80% awareness, then 20% of it should be toward the consideration of like, here's why this is important for your institution or here, here's why we're pushing that.

[00:03:55] So I think relative to what you said and kind of you're talking about potential. [00:04:00] And I keep thinking about like, okay, there are great ways to like expand your audience by like, obviously looking at your Google Analytics, understanding like who was drawn to it in the first place and kind of creating other audiences that are like them or potentially buying, you know, maybe purchase a list, a G r E list or a college app list or something like that, where you're, you know, expanding your, your, your breadth of the audience.

[00:04:25] But I think particularly toward people who've already seen it. It's really about like crafting an announcement that really talks about like why this is important to them. What are the sections that they need to be like thinking about drilling into mulling over. But then also probably in the remarketing of this content, it's really valuable to like take a look at what pathways worked, which are the things that, like when students did make it through the pipeline last year and you know, that we considered as successful, what were they most clicking on?

[00:04:59] Are there ways for [00:05:00] us to leverage that more frequently, add more links, maybe even add more blog resources or something to kind of like give it a little bit of an ammunition, but really trying to think through like what segment of the funnel needs to have, you know, X pushes and which segment needs to have y pushes, and really crafting those announcement messages.

[00:05:19] They're so, they're a little bit more particular to those areas. That's where my head immediately goes. Yeah, 

[00:05:26] Tony: that's really good 

[00:05:26] Shane: stuff. There's so many things in my mind that are like popping right now. There's probably 20 things I would do. Distinct things for remarketing. I love remarketing. It's one of my favorites because let's say in that previous example last year, it was all experimental and we tried it and you're saying it was good enough to get results.

[00:05:47] Well, now you've got all this data. I will call out if you don't have a good c r M system, if you don't have a right. A good marketing automation tool. This is why we're huge proponents of HubSpot 'cause it gives us the [00:06:00] data to do all the things I'm gonna talk about here. Better. If you don't have this data, then you can't do some of these things, so that's fair.

[00:06:06] You could criticize me for that, but I would argue most technology today, you do at least have some of this data. JB, you just mentioned Google Analytics, you should really be on Google Analytics. Four is all this stuff you can get, but you really need a good C R M tool so you can get that data out of the piece to make the decisions on how to refine it.

[00:06:23] I think the secret to remarketing. Is refining and doing less of what didn't work as well and doing a heck of a lot more like doubling or tripling down in the areas that you did really well. And so if. That that applies to every channel and tactic. So we'll just start digital ads. If we promoted this premium content piece and we spent $10,000 on Facebook for the whole year, and on Facebook we did some lead ads, we did some traffic ads, we did some boosted posts that led to the piece, you should now have the data that says, and, and by the way, not all those dollars were super [00:07:00] successful.

[00:07:00] You spend less in the areas that weren't more in the areas that were, that's kind of obvious, but that's the fun part. But beyond like paid and ads, I think you also remarket the piece by cross-promoting it more. So sometimes schools can be hesitant to link to it because they're not sure if it's gonna work, or there's another department you gotta work with to get them to do it, and they don't listen.

[00:07:21] They control that part of the website. Once you have demonstrated success, You should be able to go to other departments or your webmaster, whoever that is, and say, this worked really well last year and we only had one link. We now want five ways to link to it. We want a pop down bar. We want a chat bot.

[00:07:37] We want this school to put it on their page. We want this article that is on the news. We want you to add a C T A that goes to that piece. So that's part of remarketing that often schools forget is just linking to it more. Just make more pathways. And so the hope is that in this next year, you're able to prove that because it had demonstrated success.

[00:07:56] And I think the last way I'll share, and then I'll stop is [00:08:00] one of my favorite ways to remarket. We often make a content piece for a particular audience, for a particular stage in the funnel like awareness or consideration or decision. And it, it does well there. Sometimes those pieces are really good at totally opposite stages.

[00:08:16] I have so many examples of schools that made a lead gen piece, a thought leadership awareness piece only to reuse that in a yield campaign, to reduce melt, and that same awareness stage piece was read at the bottom. I believe today's students for higher ed prospective students are really hesitant to commit.

[00:08:38] They're applying to more places, and they are not sold until the very, very, very end. And that means they're coming back and re and reengaging with content that is traditionally considered top of the funnel or like just to get them in the door. And so if you're really cool, you'd have a CR R M that knows which people actually read it or didn't, or watched the video or didn't, or they only watched five [00:09:00] seconds of it, or 25 seconds.

[00:09:02] I don't mind remarketing it when people say, well, we already sent that out to them. How many of them actually read it? How many of them actually watched it? You really think it's that bad. Like two months later they get another email in the very bottom of the drip sequence after they've been accepted and it says, Hey, by the way, even if you saw this, you know, check it out again.

[00:09:23] People reread it again 'cause they skimmed it the first time. And so I have no qualms about reusing a piece, even as someone who I know downloaded it. You'd be surprised how many people actually click it again and go back into it, or they share it with a friend. So there are so many ways to remarket. I could, we could spend the entire episode just going after ideas there.

[00:09:41] Yeah. Too easy. 

[00:09:43] Jamie: Well, and we all, we often talk, and I, I totally agree with you, Tony. I feel like there are probably limitations that we could get into, like the exceptions to that. Like where you have. Resources that are overused because you have too few resources. And we talk about this with our clients, a lot of like how do we continue to [00:10:00] like create pathway differentiation and like make it so that it doesn't seem the same.

[00:10:05] But I a hundred percent agree with you. I think that like having those like places, but then really understanding like where they go, it reinforces this graph that we use all the time. Of like, we think of the funnel in this very linear, like straight down arrows. Like, yes, you're gonna click this and you're gonna click this, and you're gonna click this and you're gonna, you're gonna learn more, then you're gonna apply now, then you're gonna come for a visit, and then you're gonna get accepted and then you're gonna deposit, right?

[00:10:28] Like all these kind of a linear call to action robot that every prospective student is when in reality, They're constantly needing reinforcement to say, is that decision that I'm making the right decision? So that's where those, you know, those top of the funnel pieces come in handy at the bottom of the funnel.

[00:10:47] And that remarketing of all that content just becomes so, so important. So important now probably more than ever because people are, have such access to so much information and they wanna reread it over again. [00:11:00] So a hundred percent 

[00:11:01] Tony: great points. So thinking about. Remoting, these resources, what maybe can you expect when you repromote?

[00:11:10] Right? I think what's, what can be hard is thinking, we did all this stuff, we spent all this money, we got X. If you're spending the same amount of money that next year, can you expect X again? Should you expect X? And then some should you expect less than X? Um, how. Should people kind of set expectations, A leader comes to them and says, Hey, you can have 50 grand again for this resource, but I wanna be sure that we get here.

[00:11:40] How do you know if that's feasible? What should you be doing to set expectations with leadership or whomever to give them a sense for what they should be seeing at the, you know, bottom line, all the way on, up to the ad spend and the, the number of clicks, because I think that's something that people.

[00:11:59] Struggle with [00:12:00] thinking through, because it can be so varied depending on, well, how many audiences did you test it with and which ones worked, and which ones are you gonna do next time? And there's just, there's a hundred variables. So where do you start starting to do some of that analysis? And then what does that mean for the expectations that you then share with the 

[00:12:16] Jamie: rest of the team?

[00:12:18] So I feel like where I would start there, and this might be the idealist in me, but I would wanna start by saying, What sort of s e o traction did that content piece get and how can we potentially re, I know this is gonna sound sinful, but like how can we reduce the budget? How can we reduce this, like this amount of like digital ads budget, that's like pushing toward the resource and how does, how is that like overcome by that which is coming in through the organic, but then with that money that you don't spend on digital, then I constantly am gonna be asking like, What else can we put with the new, with that remarketing campaign [00:13:00] to make it stronger on the s e o front?

[00:13:02] So like drive more organic traffic, created myself as more of an authority, like help people to find it who are asking these questions, maybe potentially address. A weak area of the funnel by putting a blog that that kind of addresses that area, but then ties into that content, like I think that's where my head goes, which then leads to X plus Y.

[00:13:23] In my mind it's always like, like how do we get n plus one? How do we get to that point where it's like we're performing better? I mean, my sense says that if something worked well last year, we shouldn't commit at the expectation that like we shouldn't expect that much out of it this year. We should expect that much.

[00:13:42] Plus we should expect a little bit more because if it's valuable, it's useful, then people are gonna recognize that and it's gonna, it's gonna continue to be that way. 

[00:13:51] Shane: Well, and let's be real, like how many higher ed professionals today don't have to worry about increasing enrollment targets year over year?

[00:13:58] So, I mean, a lot of [00:14:00] this really matters whether or not the enrollment goals. For the program, is there a co, I mean, I was in a conversation yesterday with a school and they said, we're not planning to do another cohort, and we've kind of maxed out the one we have. There's your answer. There's no room in that program to recruit more.

[00:14:16] I think that has a bearing on a lot of what you just, you just said Jamie, so I think most folks right now are dealing with increasing enrollment pressure, and so these are existing programs versus a new program. It can be really different new programs. Often there's a understanding that the first amount, the first class, first cohort will be small and then, but the next year we're gonna, and so you see these increasing very aggressive enrollment goals for new programs over a three or four year period of time.

[00:14:44] So that's the problem is like, oh, it did well, but we only spent so much dollars in ads and it got so many rankings, Jamie. So while I love to agree with you, like you can go back and cut back on the ad budget, I think a lot of our listeners are dealing with increasing [00:15:00] pressure to keep doing more, and that's what's so hard and ad cost is going up and so sometimes the exact same amount of dollars, even if you optimize the ads, Gets you the less leads because your competitors are spending more and there's so many factors.

[00:15:14] So that's a hard question. And I, you know, you should expect something like anywhere from 20 to maybe 50% more leads. If all things were equal and you had the same amount of money, you should expect an increase in leads because the idea is that you learned from what you did last year. You're spending less time doing the things that aren't working and more time doing the things that are.

[00:15:39] However, that's like in a vacuum. And sometimes that's true. And sometimes you do the exact same things. You even optimize and do the betters and results are about the same or less. And so often we have to pivot. That's the name of this podcast is why we're talking about pivots, is when we go in and things aren't going as they were.

[00:15:56] And I think where I see that the most right now, here's a great example. [00:16:00] Events right now events. I know we're talking about content pieces, but like last year events were doing a little better or maybe a year or two ago. Particularly virtual or they're leveling out right now, event attendance to in-person or virtual events is going down.

[00:16:16] And I know schools that are doing the exact same things or even investing more and the numbers are falling and it's really scary. So I do think, uh, while we all optimize as best we can, I do think there's a part of remarketing that is really, you have to increase the footprint of the piece. Probably because you have to hit more numbers anyways, or just because that's just how marketing is and until you update it, so yeah, I think that's a hard one because it's a moving, it's a, the target that we're going after is a moving target and the number pressure on most enrollment managers today is, is kind of insane.

[00:16:56] And so I am more of a fan of saying, okay, [00:17:00] just 'cause we had success last year, however you wanted to find that we probably actually do need some more money and we need to optimize everything. And that's just to get 25% more leads, which you're gonna need anyways to hit your goals. So it is really difficult.

[00:17:13] Jamie: That's a fair point. And I think, yeah, when I was thinking of like where do we. Yeah, it's not that you would ever wanna move backwards. 'cause I do think, you know, the increased pressure and, and the bigger numbers and increased costs, I think is all a factor. So like, what does it look like to either invest more in a, you know, your digital footprint so that you can, you know, bring in more top of the funnel leads or how can you expand your keyword footprint by doing it?

[00:17:41] So I think, yeah, I think we're saying things in a. Different vernacular, but saying a similar thing. But I agree the pressure's high. 

[00:17:48] Tony: So in the beginning I said all four of these are doing well. Pivot, one of them does horribly, but you invested the time to make [00:18:00] it. You spent the digital ad money and basically leadership is saying, we can't have just done all that for nothing.

[00:18:08] Find a way to make it work. How do you then take that piece? Finagle it so that you have a new angle to approach a very similar, if not the same audience or audiences to try and generate results. That could be tons of different factors, but what are a couple things that you would look to, to tweak in order to try and give that new life and really generate the results that you know, the other three, you know, in theory generated,

[00:18:39] Ooh, 

[00:18:41] Jamie: that's a good one. I feel like I, I kinda keep going back to the same thing, but I, I would wanna look at like, okay, if it did poorly, where did it do poorly? And, and is it something where there are parts of it that can be either added to or taken away so that it's [00:19:00] like reformatted to address those areas where it didn't perform?

[00:19:04] So, For instance, if it was like supposed to be a lead generation content piece and we wanna remarket it and we want more leads, but it did a crappy job of getting leads, then why did it do a crappy job of getting leads? Like what were the, was the audience the wrong audience? Did the leads, was it too easy?

[00:19:21] Was there not enough like stickiness to the piece where, where they were kinda like working through it? I agree with you 

[00:19:27] Shane: though, Jamie. I agree. I I think there's a reason. There's always a reason. There's always a reason and you have to be willing to look at that and uncover it. It's never just like unlucky necessarily.

[00:19:38] It's normally a con. I think that's falls under conversion rate optimization because I think, how are we defining it did really well, it didn't do really well. Is it by views? It's typically conversions. And so I think this is ultimately done to conversion rate optimization, and you gotta look at things like C t a placement.

[00:19:58] How many form fields are you putting in? [00:20:00] If it was a gated offer, if it's an ungated offer, it's just views and engagement. How are we measuring that? Like the other videos did really well. They got 50% viewership on average, and this one got people bounced all the time and didn't watch it at all. But maybe your content piece just stinks.

[00:20:17] If it's not that, let's just pretend it's not that. There's normally a reason. It's where is it placed on the page, or there's normally someone's not linking to it somewhere where they should, or the barrier's too high or the words on the page aren't compelling and you need to tweak it. And I think it's worth another round.

[00:20:36] Changing those things. Tweaking conversion rate optimization, and ideally if you have in what you just said, if the three others did well, you should have. The facts, the data on what worked well for them. There's gotta be something not consistent. Typically, even with market audience variations, I still think there's gotta be a reason and yeah, so you may have to try harder and [00:21:00] try some other channels.

[00:21:01] There's, there's always more things to try and if leadership is saying, we need to give this another go. I feel like it is very rare to run into like, well, there's nothing else to do. We have no idea. There's always something 

[00:21:13] Jamie: un unless it's a program that needs to be sunsetted. And so his, if there's historic trending toward like, Hey, we developed this content resource because this program was like on its last leg, and look, it didn't work.

[00:21:26] Then I think we need to have the hard conversation of like, okay, well first of all, why did we do that in the first place? It might've been a, you know, a waste of money, or it might be time to just put that baby to bed.

[00:21:39] Let's play a game. 

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[00:22:40] Tony: Yeah, and thinking about the conversion rate optimization side of it too, I think sometimes there's a hesitancy to, to think, our tendency to think it didn't work, we need to change the content. When in reality, if nobody's downloading it, they don't know what the content is, so don't change.

[00:22:56] Don't go updating the ebook 'cause nobody's reading it. [00:23:00] Go change the things that people are seeing. Right? Is it, yeah, the title isn't compelling or it doesn't align with whatever the challenge is. Right? If you make a teaching degree, it has to address the current challenges of teaching. It can't just be, you know, something very general about teaching.

[00:23:14] That just is a complete disconnect. Also, thinking about your digital ads, right? Or your digital ads. Consistent with the information on the landing page and when people click, are they seeing what they saw before? And they're like, okay, this is exactly what I wanted. And I think sometimes there's this disconnect.

[00:23:30] We've seen this with other, you know, when we hop in and start working with a client and they show us their old ads and what landing band we're like, what? It sounds like you're promoting two different things, but it's supposed to be an ad that leads to a landing page and it's like you're just, you're only losing people 'cause of the words you selected in an ad or on a landing page.

[00:23:46] You tweak that one thing. And you're, you know, kind of rebounding pretty quickly. Um, but at what point do you get to, right? You can test tons of things. At what point do you get to, let's [00:24:00] rework the angle of the guide from a title standpoint. So it takes a little bit of work, right? Because you gotta change the graphics.

[00:24:07] You have to change any reference of it. The links around the website where you mention the guide, and then there's the title name, the good amount of work, very much more. It's more labor intensive than Let's change the landing page copy. That's just one spot you're kind of in and done. When do you go, okay, it's the title.

[00:24:25] We need to change the title, we need to make all these updates. And then how do you think about what to change it to? What are you looking at? Obviously the other guides that did well, you may have something to pull from, but if you used a similar format for all four. You might be thinking like, wow, why is that not working?

[00:24:42] It worked these three other times and not this one. So very open-ended question there. But curious. I think that's the big challenge of like, we gave it our best shot the first time, but now what do 

[00:24:51] Jamie: we do? Yeah. I mean, my gut says like, Hey, let's look at the guide, the title relative to like keywords that [00:25:00] might be in that content area and capitalize on large audiences.

[00:25:04] So maybe there's a marginal crossover, you know? Is there a way to like, Write a, a new section and make it like add a, a chapter or add a section that really ties it into this very large keyword volume. But then, then it kind of nuances into some more specifics later on. That's, that can be tricky 'cause you don't wanna be like devious and like have just kind of like clickbait kind of content.

[00:25:29] So I think the other thing that my head goes to is like, what's it look like to go out some, some randos and just be like, hey, When you see this, like, what's, what's missing? Or like find some people who are like in the pipeline, who are maybe alumni or maybe former students or something like that and say, Hey, I need some, like, you know, very informal market research on this title, on this piece of copy.

[00:25:51] Like, why wouldn't a student like read this and then keep going? What would be the friction points? And I think too many times, like we get [00:26:00] things done, we cross it off the list and we think, okay, it's done. It's like it's the toothpaste can't be put back in the tube when in reality the truth is like, we need to be looking for those points of friction.

[00:26:11] We need to be looking for like, is there a way in your C R M or your C M s to look, look at this content. People dropped off when they got here. I. This was the spot, the stopping spot, understanding all those little pieces and then addressing the little friction points, I think is, is a huge bit of homework, but also could have huge dividends sort of making that successful.

[00:26:28] Yeah, I, 

[00:26:28] Shane: I couldn't agree more. Just total ditto to the answer to this has to do with where it's, where the dropoff is. I think that's where you spend your time and at any drop off point there is. Are very clear solutions on what you do. So is, is it here or is it, no, it's in the middle. They're, they're getting into reading what they're not doing.

[00:26:45] Like for instance, you gotta have a piece that's actually ranking really well. It's got lots of clicks to it from organic. Even the content piece you put out is doing awesome, but the people it's getting are people looking. They're not really, prospects aren't qualified, so no one's inquiring [00:27:00] or they're Yeah, you're, you're getting leads downloading the guide and no one's doing to the next stage.

[00:27:04] That would tell you, you made a really attractive piece. Way to go for the wrong people. That's the challenge of thought leadership. I, I think the onus on this goes back to content strategy. A good content strategy is a solution to this problem. And you start with a content strategy. Let's say you did that, and let's say you're wrong on this one content piece, so then you go back and revise your content strategy.

[00:27:29] But the answer is in that drop off. So if the drop off is here, a lot of people viewing the page but not downloading and they're not getting passed into the content, it's title, it's how you're positioning it. You're not using the right words or you're using words that are attracting people who think it's X, but it's really y and they, they see that and they're leaving.

[00:27:45] If it's in the middle, there's different things you do if it's towards the end and they're not starting apps, you're getting all these inquiries, but no one's applying. Then you gotta look at those situations and say, maybe we're pushing the wrong content piece. And typically that's an area of value [00:28:00] and you have to improve some of the val, one of the value propositions is weak and they don't, they want the program.

[00:28:06] They might have been even interested in your school originally. They're interested in the program, but they're not really convinced that they should move forward and your school should be on the short list. And that's a value issue and that's very different than what I would change there versus some of those other things.

[00:28:20] So I think drop off dictates 

[00:28:23] Tony: the 

[00:28:23] Shane: pivot, and if you don't know where your drop off is and you're just looking zoom too far out, you could actually be changing the wrong things and wasting your time. So it's all about where drop off is 

[00:28:38] Tony: something. I feel like I've heard both of you say plenty before of.

[00:28:43] You know, sometimes there's this tendency to be too literal with the program and the program name, and so I don't know if you have a couple exam, obviously we don't need to name schools here, but names of programs where it's okay to flirt with how [00:29:00] you talk about it, and it doesn't need to use the literal name of the program in the title.

[00:29:04] It can use some sort of shorthand. For it or reference to it and doesn't need to be, you know, the, you have a seven word program and to just get that on a guide title page is you have no space left. How do you go about kind of thinking like, is this too far of a reach? Can I change it to this? How should people approach that if they have a, a tricky program name like that?

[00:29:28] Jamie: Yeah, I, well, I think that it's tricky program name or also even one that we might see as like, Dwindling, like, you know, let's use education for instance. Like education is in a, is in a hard spot. It's not really attractive to a lot of people because of a lot of factors. But the thing that is attractive about a lot of parts of education right now is, is some of the nuance of education about some of alternative assessments and using, you know, like thinking about different learning styles and thinking about different, this and that.

[00:29:57] Like, so thinking of like coming to those [00:30:00] sub-verticals within the bigger program and like, How do you develop content that is attracted to that attractive to, you know, folks who are interested in understanding that more? Or maybe it's a, a section within your content piece that like, could use a little bit of a shot in the arm, or like an expanded, you know, expanded profile.

[00:30:18] I think one of the schools that we, we like to highlight this a lot with also another program. It's like just kind of the big boring, like bo I, I say boring, but it's like it's in everything. It's computer science, right? Computer science. It doesn't sound super sexy, but when you start talking about like algorithms and data analytics and things like that, things that are part of the vernacular that we almost all use almost every day, then we have to like think of those two things and, and bring them together and like talk about how that subset.

[00:30:50] Of, you know, data analytics is, is a big part of computer science and understanding like the bigger science of computer science. So I think there are definitely like little subsets [00:31:00] within most programs that you can kind of tease out and you can have a lot of fun I think writing, uh, content for them. I think that's the other part is like, You know, if we have a good time writing the content and like researching it and understanding more about it, the chances are pretty good that when people are reading it, they're also going to enjoy it.

[00:31:18] So if you're writing stuff that's like super boring and you find it super boring, Then you might actually think your audience might find the same thing. So if we can like make it exciting, I think 

[00:31:27] Shane: this is gonna continue to be more and more the norm for higher ed, this is at the undergrad level. This is at degree completion, adult degree completion.

[00:31:36] This is at the grad level, PhD and Masters. Even certificates as stackable certificates, I think become even more powerful. Are you marketing? It goes back to what you said earlier in another podcast. Are you marketing experiences or are you marketing names of your boring names of your programs? Liberal arts.

[00:31:54] How many of you schools out there have an undergrad liberal arts program? Are you marketing your liberal arts? [00:32:00] Are you marketing something more exciting? Like, you know, learn how to be a digital copywriter or, you know, so repackaging our programs and leading with the more attractive aspects that you'll learn.

[00:32:12] Um, and I, I'll just come out with one as well. There, there was a school working with, has a forensic accounting program. It's a certificate and accounting certificates is a popular term forensic. If you add that on, it drops in popularity. But we looked and did some research on what are similar terms people are typing in.

[00:32:30] The more popular terms are cyber crime, white collar crime, right? So, um, Here's the marketing jingle, right? Do you wanna market a forensic accounting certificate that people aren't really searching for? 'cause that blend of words is quite not as popular. Or do you want to paint a picture for, get the degree to fight cyber crime?

[00:32:50] Oh, what's that degree? It starts with a forensic accounting certificate and leads towards a full degree, a full master's. That's just a very different proposition, and that kind of [00:33:00] wording and titling needs to be in the content all throughout. Um, so I think that's, that, that's just good content strategy and good content marketing should dictate those words for you.

[00:33:11] So yeah, we're pretty bullish on, I don't really care what your school's name is or what the accreditation body says your name is. I care what prospective students are searching in our thinking. And you as an institution have a right to market it, however you wanna market it and say that's in our, this program.

[00:33:28] Engineering schools struggle with this a lot, like all the master's in engineering degrees. They're really specialty niche topics that they're teaching you. The degree you get is a master's in engineering and you know, civil engineering, electrical, you know, those are the boring, traditional engineering names.

[00:33:44] But what are you really learning? What do you really need to get a degree in? That's what you have to market.

[00:33:51] And I think 

[00:33:51] Tony: too, when you're using it as a. Lead gen piece in particular, you may be finding and targeting people that have some level of [00:34:00] interest, but they're not even maybe even thinking about pursuing a master's. And then they see something like that fighting, you know, cyber crime and they're like, oh, that's kind of cool.

[00:34:09] I would check that out. Like, because that's a term that they would recognize and it has a little bit more mass appeal to it versus forensic accounting and you're like, I'm not really an accountant and I, you know, I feel like accountant kind of has a connotation of. You're dry and boring. And so I feel like people are just like, nah, I don't want to be, it's all right.

[00:34:26] My mom's an accountant. It's not like, you know, I wanna be an accountant. That's my dream job. But it's like, this is something totally different than really being a regular accountant. And so I think kind of getting that universal language that people understand, that's also I. Something that's a little bit more trendy, um, gives you a better opportunity to get some people that may otherwise just skimm past the name of your program because it's not of interest to them, or it doesn't have any words that resonate with the type of work they'd like to be doing.

[00:34:53] In the same way that when you describe. What you do, you don't just say your title because your title may not [00:35:00] actually mean all that much or say much about what you do. So I think that's super helpful. Okay. Wrapping up here, as you run a little late, we're moving into September school starting up. We're gonna be some priorities for you all over the next two weeks to a month as schools are really getting back in stride and, and in the groove of the school year.

[00:35:25] How about 

[00:35:25] Shane: we do predictions? Love it. Let's up the ante. Okay, I think we should make predictions for this fall, and then let's come back to a later episode when we've actually caught up in, in time in the multiverse. And let's see what we said versus what actually happened and see if we were anywhere 

[00:35:41] Tony: close.

[00:35:41] What are we making predictions on Super 

[00:35:44] Jamie: Bowl winner,

[00:35:50] Shane: higher ed. Higher ed marketing trends. What's gonna happen this fall recruitment season is that by the end of the fall, this will [00:36:00] be a situation that schools are facing.

[00:36:05] Fall recruitment trends. 

[00:36:09] Jamie: Well, I think this is a hard one 'cause it's like, So there's a part of me that thinks, you know, higher ed TR trends are pretty easy to predict because it's a relatively slow moving vehicle. Right? But there's another part that's like, but it's been rapidly changing. And more recently to understand like what's actually gonna happen more of.

[00:36:30] Shane: I think my prediction is that email marketing for schools, your com flows one-off marketing emails, event emails, all of them. In general, we're gonna see declining rates, declining returns. Schools will have spent some great time revamping their com flows in their C R M, and I think the results on email marketing are gonna be meh.

[00:36:51] I think people are going to be like, gosh, We've been listening, we've been doing these things. We, we updated, or maybe they didn't. I didn't. Regardless, [00:37:00] email is gonna continue to, people are gonna become more numb to email and I think this fall in particular, like the next six months is we're gonna finally see the results catch up to what we've been talking about, which is going to make schools have to look at other channels and tactics starting in 2024, even more seriously.

[00:37:22] That's my prediction. I like 

[00:37:23] Tony: it. I have mine. 

[00:37:25] Jamie: Go ahead. I'm, I'm, I'm dying here. 

[00:37:30] Tony: Tony, type 'em one. I'll talk for a while. You type 'em one too. Don't, don't embarrass us. Jamie. I think the schools with even decently sophisticated chatbots are gonna thrive. I think as people start using, especially younger generations, start using AI tools, more and more prompting, more and more, they're expecting.

[00:37:51] Simple inputs and getting maximum outputs and your website can't just, your website is not built for that. It's not that your search bar on your [00:38:00] website, no matter how sophisticated it's is not that. I think the schools that have chatbots that are really built well and can feed information with little input or have very clear pathways, are gonna see all time high end engagement, which I think will then translate to success on the recruitment front and 

[00:38:18] Shane: AI powered chat 

[00:38:19] Tony: bots.

[00:38:20] Jamie: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Game changers. 

[00:38:22] Tony: I don't think most people will get to AI chatbots by fall, but the ones that do exist, even now, I think that have some level of knowledge base or clear content pathways are gonna crush 

[00:38:34] Jamie: it. So I'm tempted to like the bigger picture of higher ed, but I think what I will predict is that we're gonna continue.

[00:38:43] This might not, I feel like this isn't even a prediction. This is like such an easy, like such a cop out one. We're gonna keep seeing digital rates go higher as words become more competitive, and as be as we start competing with non-educational entities to, for the, a lot of the words, [00:39:00] which ultimately leads to the breakdown of the, the bigger system of higher education, I think.

[00:39:06] But, so digital rates get higher, so digital spends become less effective. But the schools who are implementing early video into their digital ads will see more success than those who are not, because video is an enduring trend. To quote Mark Zuckerberg, 

[00:39:26] Tony: I'd agree with that. That's a good one. It's a good one.

[00:39:30] Awesome. All righty. Well, thank you all for listening to Milestone episode number 10 of the Pivot. Hope to see you again in two weeks.

[00:39:51] Zach: Hey all, Zach here from Enrollify. If you like this podcast, chances are you'll like other enroll I shows too. Our podcast network is growing by the month, and we've got a [00:40:00] plethora of marketing admissions and higher ed technology shows that are jam packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks that are all designed to empower you to become a better higher ed professional.

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