Higher Ed Marketing Budgets Unveiled

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Jaime: Hi, I'm a higher ed CMO and I have a confession to make. I am absolutely fascinated by looking at the trends for how higher ed marketers are spending their resources. But I'm also interested in the areas where we feel like we might not be quite up to speed in terms of our skillsets or the expertise on our teams.

[00:00:17] So I hope you enjoy this conversation that I have with Ben Congleton, who is the CEO and founder of Olark on his study that his company did with Enrollify on how higher ed marketers are spending their dollars. And I think hopefully you can stick with us cuz there's a lot of chaos in his house as he was about to have a new baby join his family.

[00:00:39] The due date was the day after we were recording, so I hope you enjoy this episode and stick through the little bit of chaos at the very beginning.[00:01:00] 

[00:01:02] Welcome to Confessions of a Higher Ed CMO. The podcast designed for higher education marketers. I'm your host Jaime Hunt, and I am so excited to have this opportunity to share insights and inspiration with Confessions of a Higher Ed CMO. I'm designing a different kind of podcasting experience. With each episode, I'll be bringing in a guest for a deep dive and into the challenges and joys we all face in higher education marketing.

[00:01:28] After each episode, you can join the conversation on Twitter by using the hashtag higher ed CMO. I would love to see this become like a book club, but for a podcast. And be sure to follow me on Twitter at Jaime Hunt imc. That's J A I M E H U N T IMC for more opportunities to connect.

[00:01:56] I'm so happy to be here with Ben Congleton, who is the c [00:02:00] e o and founder of O Lark. Ben, how are you today? I 

[00:02:03] Ben: am doing great. 

[00:02:05] Jaime: As we speak, Ben is on baby watch, so we're hoping that no, uh uh, babies are born during the recording of this episode. 

[00:02:13] Ben: Wouldn't be exciting though. It could be the first, the first. In the labor.

[00:02:17] I mean, I don't know, the baby happens that quickly where we're in 

[00:02:20] Jaime: trouble. Well, I, I, if it's born during the episode recording, I hope you name it, Jaime. That's my, 

[00:02:27] Ben: I'll, I'll, I'll hook that up. We'll, we'll, we can make that happen for 

[00:02:29] Jaime: you, James. Sounds good. So Ben, before we jump into talking a little bit about higher ed marketing spending, tell us a little bit about your career journey and how you came to found Olark.

[00:02:42] Ben: Yeah, so my career journey is quite non-traditional. So I was doing a PhD at University of Michigan. I was in their school of information. I was studying how people communicate with each other in collaboration and, and I left that program and I moved out the California to [00:03:00] start a company, to start a company to add little live chat boxes to every website.

[00:03:04] Cause it turned out in 2009 it was pretty hard to do and they weren't there. And so we have this idea like, Hey, like what if, you know, when I'm shopping online or you know, on a website, I can actually reach out, talk to someone on the other end, get my question answered, build a relationship with that person.

[00:03:21] Well, they have my, my attention basically. And, and make that, and make that possible. So I've never had a boss and a lot of the culture we tried to build at O Lark, Was based on kind of that experience working in a, in a PhD, higher education environment. My dad's a college professor. My sister's a college professor.

[00:03:39] Brother-in-law is a college professor. I've always felt kind of like the higher ed community felt like very normal and felt kind of like the community that I was like very well connected to. So it's been pretty fun working more in higher ed now. When the company started we're, you know, we served higher ed, we served librarians.

[00:03:57] Uh, we served a lot of different businesses, but it [00:04:00] was predominantly b2b. And then more recently we've seen a lot more interest in the higher ed side of the house. And I think part of that's been really exciting for me because, um, we got pretty passionate about building the very accessible live chat both on the front end and the back end.

[00:04:16] And the higher community is a group of folks that, uh, get it. You know, they get the idea that, oh yeah, we want that to be accessible on websites, but we also wanna be able to hire folks who need assistive technology to use that software. Yeah. And yeah, it's been really fun. 

[00:04:31] Jaime: That's awesome. That's fantastic.

[00:04:33] And it seems like, you know, 2009, that seems so long ago for introducing a technology that kind of now seems fairly ubiquitous. I mean, it's on just about every business website at this point. It's 

[00:04:46] Ben: pretty, it's pretty amazing to see that transition happen. And especially today, right, where we spend so much time and effort just trying to get people to come to our websites, like all of our marketing dollars, all of our billboards with URLs on it, et [00:05:00] cetera, and they sh they show up on that website, they finally got their attention.

[00:05:04] Like, let's make sure that we can actually engage with those people while they have our attention. And you know, it turns out it works pretty well. 

[00:05:11] Jaime: That's awesome. So kind of pivoting to the topic of our conversation today. You and Olark recently released results of a survey that looked at how higher ed marketing leaders were planning to spend money in the next fiscal year.

[00:05:26] What prompted you to tackle that 

[00:05:27] Ben: project? Yeah, it's interesting, right, because, uh, we, like I said, a couple minutes ago, like we were. We were doing accessibility work and we started talking to more higher ed institutions. We were super excited about, you know, the focus on accessibility. And it turned out we knew a lot less about higher ed marketing in that space than we knew about b2b.

[00:05:48] And we started talking to some of our friends at Enroll Fify, and it turned out that our friends at Role, I have those questions. The people hired marketers were talking to, had questions like, what are other people doing? Budgets look, are [00:06:00] priorities going? And we decided, You know what? Like, let's work with the role file.

[00:06:03] Let's put something together. Let's get it out there and do some analysis around it. And it turned out to be a pretty fun project that's helped create a resource for the community at large and helped ourselves get better educated and be more helpful partners. 

[00:06:18] Jaime: I love this survey, like I think it's so interesting to see, I feel like it gives you some really good trend data, gives you some insights into what colleagues across the country are doing, and I'm curious, what did you find was the top spending priority for people taking the survey?

[00:06:36] And did it surprise you? 

[00:06:38] Ben: Well, it wasn't surprising, I'll tell you that, but given friends in higher ed, but the folks who took our survey said undergrad enrollment was based at a number one priority, and that's just across the board. And if you break it down by Carnegie classification of institution, we actually were able to pull it in.

[00:06:55] So, uh, four year baccalaureates we're more interested in brand awareness. [00:07:00] Associates, colleges were more interested in retention, but at at a high level, most folks were interested in undergrad. And not surprising given the demographic cliff, given the sort of changes of perception around the value of a higher ed education, marketing dollars are now more focused on that driving, driving people into the fund.

[00:07:21] So 

[00:07:22] Jaime: when you looked, you mentioned the institution types that you saw a little bit of difference. Did you see any differences in terms of the size of the institution or was it pretty consistent? 

[00:07:33] Ben: So I did not do a split on size of institution. I think that'd be really interesting to look at. Obviously when you use Carnegie clarification, you get things like four year doctoral, you get four year baccalaureate.

[00:07:45] That doesn't give you enrollment size, but that might be like a really interesting follow up question to dive into more. I was, it was pretty fun data to pull into it, and I think one of the things I'm most excited about is having done the survey once. To do it again. So you [00:08:00] can start looking at trends.

[00:08:01] We can dive a little bit deeper in some of those questions people want answers to, and that's kinda a, as, as a data nerd, this is, you know, it's, it's fun to do the first version, but the second version is like, oh man, now we can look at change over time. 

[00:08:15] Jaime: Yeah. So are you planning to do this annually or every couple of years or 

[00:08:18] Ben: what's your plan for Uh, I mean, I am.

[00:08:21] Yeah, it's a really good question. I'm excited to do it again. Obviously our marketing team was highly involved in this process, and role five we're partners here, so I think annual is a good pace to try to work this 

[00:08:30] Jaime: work. Things change so fast, and I think like AI is just gonna make things change even more quickly going forward.

[00:08:39] So I think it's gonna be fascinating to see how this evolves over the years in the study. What channels do you, did you find that Higher Ed CMOs plan to invest in most heavily? 

[00:08:52] Ben: Yeah, so the, the, we basically asked people around how they're prioritizing channels and so they said, you know, the areas where they're trying to invest more in are [00:09:00] areas like email marketing and like list purchasing, and kind of going after like select students social, like paid social was another big channel that folks were talking about investing in the number two channel.

[00:09:11] And then at least the folks that we advertise, we we interacted with were less interested in things like broadcast radio billboard, which.

[00:09:24] Jaime: Yeah, I mean I, when I think about some of those traditional platforms outta home, broadcast, all of that, there's a lot of like cachet with having those. It really makes your boards happy to see billboards. It makes your alumni happy to see your airport ads when they land their planes and come in. But it's really hard to track the ROI of those things.

[00:09:47] And as boards get more and more, Interested in the roi, it's hard to justify a big spend in those 

[00:09:53] Ben: areas. I do think in particular, like the ROI and attribution is like very interesting, like [00:10:00] especially when folks are looking into things like paid social, like you need a certain level of sophistication to get higher levels of return on investment information there, like your return on, like your return on share, your return on et cetera.

[00:10:13] But what is the. True value to the college is very fascinating, but it certainly, you get a lot more indicators of that than you would with a billboard and some high level information. Yeah, 

[00:10:25] Jaime: for sure. And one of the things that I was absolutely fascinated by with the survey is you asked if you had $200,000 that you could spend on a single channel to increase new inquiries, where would you spend your budget?

[00:10:38] And I'm absolutely fascinated by the answer to that 

[00:10:40] Ben: question. That question I think has gotten the most interest on interviews and just doing the analysis around it, et cetera. This is one of my favorite questions too. I. You know, higher ed marketers versus marketers in general. Just the idea that like, Hey, gimme some money.

[00:10:55] What am I gonna go do? Um, so I mean, one fun answer [00:11:00] from that was director strategies. Like, I have no idea. And I think it's interesting to, to read those like little anecdotes that are in there, but the way people answered. Was basically, you know, let's double down Instagram. There's a lot of folks who were interested in running ads on Instagram initially, and they wanted to do more of that.

[00:11:19] And then paid search was another area that folks wanted. What's interesting to me is when we cross tab across like type of university, the folks that were community colleges with associate degrees were more likely to do traditional media. And I think the thought there might be, you know, finding lifelong learners or just targeting sort of a different demographic than the typical, you know, 18 year old for college enroll, which I thought was kinda interesting as well.

[00:11:47] Definitely, definitely a fun question to ask though, for sure. 

[00:11:49] Jaime: Yeah. I was thinking like, how would I answer that question? And I think for me, if I had like a bonus, $200,000, no strings attached, I would wanna experiment with [00:12:00] something I hadn't tried yet. You know, like try something different, take a risk on something, and if it's wildly successful, hopefully get that 200,000 or.

[00:12:12] Maybe more the next time. And if it's not like, well you at least tried and you didn't risk your like face budget on trying it or something. But I don't know how a CFO would react to that idea. Yeah. I least got 

[00:12:24] Ben: interesting in particular, like in the survey, right? Like one thing that I thought was a little interesting about it is when one cross tab I ran was looking at the different goals that folks had.

[00:12:33] Like, you know, brand awareness, undergraduate enrollment, uh uh, key program awareness. Et cetera. And then looking at channels like what channel they would run against. Everyone said basically Instagram. They're like, we're gonna run Instagram for every strategy, for every goal. And you know what I mean? I get it.

[00:12:49] Like Instagram seems like a pretty safe place to put money. It's well established. Everyone's doing it. But I think that when I see something like that, it's sort of an outsider. I think, you know what, [00:13:00] where you can find an edge is probably not doing what everyone else is doing because you're, cause most folks are targeting more or less the same demographic.

[00:13:07] What if you got really good at targeting that demographic on YouTube versus trying to battle it out with everyone else in Instagram, or maybe you try some B ads as opposed to some Google ads? I think there are definite advantages to trying channels that others aren't using, especially if you're, if you have to bid against less people, maybe the vast majority of you.

[00:13:34] 18 year olds are, are on Instagram, but if you can find a niche of them in some other spot like you, you may get some better ROI in your marking 

[00:13:42] Jaime: dog. This is the takeaway for the episode, I think. I think like it's like hearing and we're having this conversation about how other people are spending their money.

[00:13:52] To me, I'm sitting here thinking, That's really smart to not necessarily be part of the clutter and the noise, but to kind of maybe stand [00:14:00] out in a place where others 

[00:14:01] Ben: aren't. I was really hoping for like a bimodal distribution, but like, yeah, like I wanted to see like, oh, there's like, everyone is like either here or here, but it was, it was it least in perception, right, of where to invest.

[00:14:13] It was all on Instagram. That's 

[00:14:15] Jaime: fascinating. Yeah. Very interesting. So you also asked some questions that were a little bit different. They weren't really about spending, but one of them was around how equipped higher ed marketing leaders feel to execute the tactics. And what did you find from that one?

[00:14:31] Ben: Yeah, that was, that was a fascinating question too, because what we did was we asked a bunch of people to rank their expertise level, beginner, intermediate, expert on a variety of different marketing tactics, anywhere from email marketing, social media, marketing. Running in-person events, et cetera, traditional media.

[00:14:50] Uh, what was fascinating to me was, and not too surprising, was just sort of level expertise around traditional media, in-person events, social [00:15:00] media marketing actually had quite a bit of expertise, which is interesting to me cuz I always find social media marketing such a baffling, hard area to really my head around.

[00:15:08] But the areas where there's less expertise, things like website optimization and paid. And I think the, what's interesting to me about those areas being lower is one, most colleges and universities are doing paid displayed ads. Most colleges and universities are likely hiring consultants or agencies to run that kinda work, but their senior leadership lacks like really strong expertise in those areas.

[00:15:34] Which makes it hard to hold those consultants and agencies accountable and really to know whether they're doing a fantastic job or just a good enough job not to get fired. Worth flagging. And then also website optimization. That was an area that a lot of folks reported lower expertise in. And the thing that I think is interesting about website optimization being a place where folks report lower expertise in is that most all marketing is just driving traffic to your website.

[00:15:59] Like whether it's [00:16:00] display, billboard, traditional social media. Ultimately, you're just trying to drive website traffic, and so if that's the place where folks are ending up, you would probably want to deepen your expertise in that area, and deeper expertise might lead you to consider things like really good AB testing frameworks.

[00:16:18] I've definitely done webinars before and surveyed audiences and finding that a lot of hired marketers are not doing a lot of AB testing, or maybe it's like something that's not accessible to very member, very many members of the team. So having testing frameworks is something more website optimization.

[00:16:34] Insight and knowledge might give you. Having better analytics forage website and stuff is something that comes with optimization. Uh, and third, like even considering something like chat. So I think chat is a really. Interesting tool because you can add chat to a website and now you can actually communicate with the person who is putting their attention on your website, who clicked your ad, who looked at your billboard, who is on your landing page, but maybe not taking that action, [00:17:00] that cta, that call to action that you really want them to take.

[00:17:03] And now you can try to figure out why. And I think these are all things that, like thinking about those tactics and strategies often come from having the expertise to know the menu of options that you might wanna consider. So I think that's just an area where, you know, as an outsider, I look at and say, huh.

[00:17:20] Like website optimization. This seems like a good area for higher ed to build more capacity end if we imagine, you know, our digital future of driving folks through websites to get action done.

[00:17:35] Jaime: Hey all. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed CMO. I wanna take a moment to thank my friends at Mindpower who are making season two of this volfi podcast. Possible. Mindpower is a full service marketing and branding firm celebrating nearly 30 years of needle moving, thought-provoking, research, fueled creative and strategy.

[00:17:56] Mindpower is woman founded and owned, W B E N C, [00:18:00] certified nationally recognized and serves the social sector, higher education, healthcare, nonprofits, and more. The Mindpower team is made up of strategists, storytellers, and experience creators from market research to brand campaigns, to recruitment to fundraising.

[00:18:15] The agency exists to empower clients, amplify brands, and help institutions find a strategic way forward. You can learn more about their work in the world by heading on over to Mindpower Inc. That's M I N D P O W E R I N c.com. And be sure to tell the crew that Jaime sent you their way. I mean, our websites are our number one salesperson, right?

[00:18:40] They're up 24 7. They have every answer to every question on them in some capacity, but they often are like the redheaded step children, cuz we end up with these unruly websites that have. A trillion pages and they're managed decentrally and it's just [00:19:00] pure chaos. And I think about a boss that I had back in 2007 to 2010 who was like, I wanna run outta clicks.

[00:19:07] And I think that while that was like kind of silly, cuz the internet is not like linear websites aren't linear. The point that he was making was that we just have too much junk on our websites and it makes the valuable content that will drive action hard to find. Yeah, 

[00:19:24] Ben: and I think one like piece of advice I have for that, and I think this is a very common challenge in higher ed or mo like bigger organizational websites, is just having.

[00:19:36] Couple goals, like a couple of prioritized goals where the actions that you take are actually lined well up against that goal. So if like your goal is like our website is going to get people to fill out that request for information form, or our website is gonna get people to, I don't know, donate money to our alumni fund or our website is going like [00:20:00] create more applicants for our, for our nursing.

[00:20:04] The point is it helps if you can have a goal, because I think the challenge a lot of these websites have is they have a ton of goals and, uh, someone has to go decide what the priorities of those goals are, and then hold the tactical execution of the website against that because it's, it basically impossible to optimize for a multifactorial of goals.

[00:20:28] The fewer priorities have the optimizing for. You know, you can't do it all. So I think just strategically it's helpful to think about what's the goal of the website, you know, how, how can I probably as quickly as possible move folks into like a zone that aligns with the segment there that I'm trying to move their goal towards.

[00:20:50] But ultimately, there probably is like one overarching goal and putting a little bit of extra attention into that overarching goal, regardless of whether, you know, what segment your visitor is [00:21:00] in, um, is probably a pretty good place to start. 

[00:21:03] Jaime: Yeah, for sure. Often think about if everything's a priority, nothing's a priority.

[00:21:08] I mean, that's something that, that we actually say a lot in my office of like, what's the priority here? And if we, the list gets too long, it's like, so nothing then, so none of it is right. That's what we're saying. You mentioned? Yeah, for sure. Well, and you mentioned something a little bit earlier about, um, agencies that do digital advertising or display advertising, kind of potentially having the ability to get away with.

[00:21:36] Maybe subpar work because we don't have the expertise on our teams to ask the tough questions. And I wanna give a plug for a former employee of mine, Jeremy Adam, who I think drove our vendors absolutely bonkers by asking the. Really tough questions and, and just pushing, pushing, pushing. And I'm sure they're like, oh, is Jeremy gonna be on this call?

[00:21:58] And I'd be like, I hope [00:22:00] Jeremy's gonna be on this call cause he just held people's feet to the fire. But you need that kind of expertise on your team, like get you a Jeremy Adam to kind of. Really hold them accountable for what they say they're supposed to be 

[00:22:12] Ben: doing. It's absolutely critical, I think in particular because, you know, an agency's primary motivation is not to get fired.

[00:22:19] Like, I mean, they're to make you happy to renew the deal, to have more work to do next year. Like that's their goal, right. There is another goal, right, which is to like meet your goal as well as possible and hit numbers for you. But, you know, ultimately most agencies are, are time shifting across multiple clients.

[00:22:37] They're trying to optimize like, you know, probably overall spend into the agency, eng, agency revenue, et cetera. They're not employees of the university and so I think that there's, there's just a little bit of tension there and there's nothing wrong. I think most companies use agencies to go do specialized work.

[00:22:53] B2b, b2c, higher ed, we all do it. The main point I was trying to make here is that it's [00:23:00] helpful to have expertise in your wheelhouse to help hold those agencies accountable. Cause there are a lot of agencies out there and it's hard to know whether you have the right agency fit for what your needs are if you are unable to ask some of those harder questions.

[00:23:16] Jaime: Yeah, for sure. And it's so helpful to have someone who. Has that expertise and is staying on top of that expertise cuz everything changes so quickly and it takes a lot of effort and I feel like when you find one of those people just like dip them in gold. Like you're take all my monies. Um, but like a really good digital marketing experts worth their weight 

[00:23:39] Ben: in gold, they're quite helpful I think.

[00:23:41] You know, additionally, I think, and I think this is worth emphasizing your audience, Is that there is a lot of opportunity in career development within higher ed too, right? So if you look at these, look across the survey and I'd recommend everyone kind of take a look at the survey and look at the expertise questions and where there are experts and beginners and, [00:24:00] well, you might be a beginner today, but you might be an intermediate soon, and someday you might be an expert.

[00:24:05] And I think that when you see gaps like that in a survey, Especially in, I would say, a TRA tradition from transition from maybe like a little bit less competitive environment with a little bit more traditional marketing, a little bit less, let's say, like action oriented marketing to kind of like a performance model.

[00:24:25] There's a lot of room for career growth and expertise and, and growth opportunities in higher exciting. 

[00:24:33] Jaime: Yeah, I guess if you think about looking at this survey as not just kind of seeing what others are doing from a spend perspective, but looking at, at it from like a opportunity perspective, that is, that's another great outcome or takeaway away from 

[00:24:48] Ben: the survey.

[00:24:49] Totally. And you could just take the, the kinda career development section of the survey, hand it to your boss and be like, I need some professional development money. I need to help us level up here because, you know, [00:25:00] We lack expertise here or here, or most orgs lack expertise here and here, or what skillset do you think we need to develop internally to help us be successful?

[00:25:10] It looks like there's a lot of gaps. Like I, I think, at least for me, and I would imagine most higher ed marketers are probably in this situation, is noticing that, you know, one, there's turnover in marketing positions in higher ed. It's hard to acquire great people. As a marketer in higher ed, you have, you should have some pretty good leverage in terms of like getting career opportunities, in terms of getting kind of career development opportunities.

[00:25:36] And I think, you know, the next, as we transition to more digital marketing, those skills that you learn in those roles are gonna be super applicable within higher ed and other industries too. 

[00:25:48] Jaime: Yeah, for sure. We, we've actually hired a lot of folks from outside higher ed over the last year. We found people who had, it's just a different set of skills that they had [00:26:00] honed in.

[00:26:01] I hate to say it like this cuz I don't mean it like this, but you know, sometimes higher ed folks just get real comfy in their jobs except at the leadership level. Well, I do think there's a lot of risk and a lot of volatility at the leadership level and our jobs are actually pretty vulnerable. But the staff level, I feel like there's a tendency to just get comfortable and collect your years until you can get your retirement.

[00:26:24] And you know, we've hired some folks from outside higher ed who are working in a more cutthroat. Getting elbowed. Getting stomped on from my people going to the top. So they're bringing, they're having to stay at the top of their game in order to stay employed, and then they're bringing that top of the game into the university.

[00:26:41] I am no way saying that there is no value to people who have worked in higher ed for their whole careers. I say as someone who has worked in higher ed for 19 years, but I do think that there is some value in looking outside higher ed, particularly in some of these. Areas where you're talking about skillsets that are, require that [00:27:00] constant reeducation constantly staying on top of the trends.

[00:27:04] Ben: Yeah, totally. I think, you know, on, on some level, you need folks that are. In a kind of a growth mindset and sort of trying to advance whether they're coming from, you know, internal new hire who's fresh, who just wants to get in really deep, or someone who's been out there getting really deep for a while.

[00:27:21] Jaime: Yeah. Yeah. I love those folks. So are there any takeaways from the survey that we haven't talked about that you think it would be important to mention in this 

[00:27:30] Ben: episode? Yeah, that's a really good question. Let me think about Covered. So, I don't think there's anything new, but I'll reemphasize a couple points that I think are worthwhile to walk away from.

[00:27:41] One is there should be a lot of good career development opportunities right now in higher ed marketing. There's plenty of gaps and expertise, plenty of smart people who would like to learn and fill those expertise. So, you know, I think many of your listeners are those smart people looking to fill gaps.

[00:27:58] So we're in the right spot. [00:28:00] Um, but bring this to your boss. Make sure that you are getting those career development opportunities. Secondly, like probably don't be afraid to be different. I think in marketing there is a lot of value in finding channels and trying things that others aren't trying, especially when in a competitive market where there's a lot of folks trying to reach the same audience.

[00:28:18] From the survey, it appears that most folks in higher ed feel very comfortable advertising and using Instagram. Don't be so comfortable, I think, think about some other opportunities out there. Probably could be, uh, finding some interesting opportunities in. And then three, I guess, you know, consider website optimization.

[00:28:37] A lot of folks, you know, at least in our survey, reported that they had lower expertise in website optimization. So this means either find experts in website optimization to work with and give you advice and to talk about when you're thinking about your strategies, but could mean considering things like putting live chat and keeps places the funnel where you wanna learn more about optimizing your website, setting up [00:29:00] AB testing frameworks.

[00:29:01] Et cetera. But I think that we spent so much money driving traffic to that website. It needs to be, it needs to deliver when folks arrive on it. And, and I think there's some opportunities to deepen our expertise to do more there. And yeah, I guess, you know, and if you all have like questions for me or wanna continue the conversation, like I'm super easy to find on LinkedIn, super easy to find an email, just band@lark.com.

[00:29:25] Uh, yeah, I'm just, I'm just happy to be a resource. 

[00:29:28] Jaime: Well, awesome, awesome. And if you're interested in checking out the survey, the link for it is in the show notes for this episode. So, you know, go ahead and check that out. And like Ben said, you can, you can track them down on LinkedIn or via email and you can find me on both LinkedIn and Twitter.

[00:29:46] Jaime Hunt IMC on Twitter, I am. J A I M E H U N T I M C. I'm also as of today on Threads, so we'll see how that goes. This episode is coming out a couple weeks after the recording, [00:30:00] but I'm on there also as the higher ed CMO. So if you're interested in tracking me down, if that's still live, when this episode comes out, that's where you can find me.

[00:30:09] So I hope everybody gets some great takeaways from this episode, and in the meantime, let's go bust some silos.

[00:30:20] Ben: Hey y'all. Zach here from Enrollify. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Confessions of a Higher Ed CMO with Jaime Hunt. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and hit that follow and subscribe button below. Furthermore, if you've got just two minutes to spare, we would greatly appreciate you leading a rating and a review of this show on Apple Podcasts.

[00:30:39] Our podcast network is growing by the month, and we've got a plethora of marketing admissions and higher ed technology shows that are jam packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks that are all designed to empower you to become a better higher ed professional. But Enrollify is far more than just a podcast network.

[00:30:56] Enrollify is where Higher Ed comes to learn new marketing skills, discover [00:31:00] new products and services, and find their next job. We're a growing learning community of 4,000 members, and we'd love to welcome you into the fold. You can access our free blog, articles, newsletters, e-courses, and more, or purchase our master course on how to market a university with Terry Flannery @enrollify.org.

[00:31:18] We look forward to meeting you soon and welcoming you into the community. Again, you can subscribe for free @enrollify.org.