What Do You Wanna Be When You Grow Up?

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Enrollify - Confessions of a Higher Ed CMO - 4 - Kin Sejpal

[00:00:00] Jaime Hunt: Hi, I'm Jamie hunt. I'm a higher ed CMO and I have a confession to make. I had absolutely no idea what marketing was, what marketers did. I knew nothing about the profession. I didn't even know it was something that universities did until I started [00:00:15] working at the first university I began working for in a public relations role.

[00:00:19] Jaime Hunt: So I'm excited today to talk a little bit about my path and the path of my guest, Ken Sage, Paul, as we have. Pursued careers in higher education marketing [00:00:30] and prepared for our roles as CML. I hope you enjoy today's show[00:00:45] 

[00:00:53] Jaime Hunt: Welcome to confessions of a higher ed CMO, the podcast designed for higher education marketers. I'm your host, [00:01:00] Jaime Hunt. And I am so excited to have this opportunity to share insights and inspiration with confessions of a higher CMO. I'm defining a different kind of podcasts. With each episode, I'll be bringing in a guest for a deep dive, into [00:01:15] the challenges and joys.

[00:01:16] Jaime Hunt: We all face in higher education market. After each episode, you can join the conversation on Twitter or using the hashtag higher ed CMO. I would love to see this become like a book club, but for a podcast [00:01:30] and be sure to follow me on Twitter at, at Jaime hunt IMC. That's J a I M E H U N T I M. For more opportunities to connect.[00:01:45] 

[00:01:47] Jaime Hunt: I am so excited to welcome Kin Sejpal with me today. Ken, do you want to tell me a little bit about yourself and where you work and all that? Good. 

[00:01:56] Kin Sejpal: Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me, Jamie. So I [00:02:00] am currently the associate vice president or marketing strategy and creative services at RIT. That's the Rochester Institute of technology.

[00:02:10] Kin Sejpal: And potentially by the time this podcast [00:02:15] airs, I will be the vice president of marketing and communications at the university of Redlands in Southern California. 

[00:02:23] Jaime Hunt: That is so exciting. I'm so excited to be one of the first people that knows this top secret piece of [00:02:30] information that you wouldn't tell me for days.

[00:02:31] Jaime Hunt: Tell me more about that role. What are you going to be doing? 

[00:02:35] Kin Sejpal: Yeah, so the reason I said potentially is because just going through the paperwork, you know, how long that takes, but we have already started talking about [00:02:45] what are we doing and what the role is going to look like, and when I'll be starting, et cetera, it's very exciting.

[00:02:52] Kin Sejpal: It's a, it's a liberal arts college. It's a much smaller than where I've been in the past and where I am [00:03:00] currently. And it's really trying to elevate the marketing function. They have historically really relied on being a communications shop and they have a Korean. Arm, but marketing [00:03:15] the way we know higher education marketing to be, that is something that is very new to this university.

[00:03:21] Kin Sejpal: And I'm going to be setting all of that up, both in terms of people, processes, and really just setting up the, [00:03:30] the science, if you will, of marketing with data and analytics functions, brand management, et cetera. So. Right in my wheel house, something I'm very excited about because I do lead marketing at RIT as well.

[00:03:44] Kin Sejpal: So marketing [00:03:45] is the vertical I oversee here and I have a counterpart who oversees communications and here at Redlands, I am primarily hired, even though I will oversee both marketing and communications. I've primarily [00:04:00] been hired to look at and set up the marketing operation. 

[00:04:05] Jaime Hunt: That is really exciting. 

[00:04:08] Kin Sejpal: I am.

[00:04:09] Kin Sejpal: I'm still. Yes. 

[00:04:11] Jaime Hunt: Can you tell me a little bit about your higher ed journey? [00:04:15] 

[00:04:16] Kin Sejpal: Sure. Once upon a time, a long time ago. Um, yeah, so I was a, in marketing and theater in India. I was not on [00:04:30] stage. I was behind the scenes and we did productions for. The general public, but we also use theater as a way to teach students expression and confidence.

[00:04:44] Kin Sejpal: [00:04:45] So I did work at the intersection of marketing and education. If you will, in India, it wasn't a traditional education. It was more extracurricular if you will. And that got me very interested in [00:05:00] excited working with students because they were just so. They're just soaking it all up. Like a sponge and families.

[00:05:06] Kin Sejpal: We're all proud and happy. And that's, that's where I started that. And then when I [00:05:15] moved to the U S so I moved from India to Indiana. So just adding any at the end of if you will, but a huge change, as you might imagine, where I went to Purdue university, I. [00:05:30] Pursued my master's in communication. It was always my goal to get a degree from the us.

[00:05:38] Kin Sejpal: And it didn't pan out that I could get my bachelor's degree in the U S I did try to [00:05:45] make that happen, but it was financially quite a lift for my family. So I ended up coming here for my masters. And while I was doing my masters, I did a lot of projects and internships [00:06:00] with my professors and other areas of Purdue university, where I got my hands dirty with doing calm projects for say the school of [00:06:15] veterinary medicine.

[00:06:16] Kin Sejpal: Um, my professor, my Brandy professor was, um, consulting for them. To help position them in, in, um, in the marketplace as a [00:06:30] hospital that is not just for Purdue staff, students and faculty, but really for anybody who had a pact. So projects like that projects, like I even worked with the student [00:06:45] health center, they needed somebody to do health promotion and help change behavior.

[00:06:51] Kin Sejpal: In that regard. So whether it was anti-smoking campaigns or sleep or stress, I was assigned, [00:07:00] I was assigned to do some of that research and campaign planning. So all of this was done while pursuing graduate school. And I was in the poodle ecosystem for the most part. So [00:07:15] as I was going through my degree, I realized that this is really fascinating.

[00:07:20] Kin Sejpal: And understanding different types of audiences within a higher education institution was something [00:07:30] that was very intriguing. Um, and it allowed me to continue to learn. And I, I thought, you know, I wonder if this could become my career and my career of choice after I [00:07:45] graduate. And. It did because when I graduated, um, Purdue had recently reorganized, the were predominantly an external relations [00:08:00] shop.

[00:08:00] Kin Sejpal: And then they had a creative function that did a lot of the brochures and writing and design, et cetera. But they had just hired their first CML, which at the time was. [00:08:15] What our university is going to have a CML, you know, why do we need to market ourselves, you know, be a Purdue university, et cetera, but I could see the vision having studied that having been there.

[00:08:29] Kin Sejpal: So [00:08:30] I went to the newly appointed CML, Terry Thompson. That name might be familiar to a few of you. Listening, but she was one of the OGs, I think, in my opinion, along [00:08:45] with 10 Flannery and a few others who paved the way for higher education marketing. Anyway, I got a chance to meet with her and I asked her what she was doing in terms of reorganization and what her [00:09:00] plans forward were.

[00:09:01] Kin Sejpal: And I shared with her, my experience, both in India and at Purdue university. And she said that, you know, there could be a place for somebody with my skill set [00:09:15] because they didn't really have people doing brand management and those types of functions. And I had already dabbled in that area and learned a lot in that area with my professors at the time.

[00:09:27] Kin Sejpal: So fast forward a few months [00:09:30] later, there was a position that was open. I believe it does create it for me. I think my supervisor, Nancy Hannibal at the time will attest to that because she said, we gotta get you on board. Um, I think you will provide great [00:09:45] value to our organization. So yeah, I was the forest, uh, marketing consultant hired from the outside to do marketing strategy and brand management and the rest, as they say, is it.[00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] Jaime Hunt: That's Purdue is a great place to cut your teeth on higher ed marketing. I mean, they are fast magazines, only higher education institution, I think in terms of brands that matter, um, AMA marketing team of the year, I [00:10:15] think, um, Just phenomenal place for you to, to kind of get started in your career. What year was that?

[00:10:21] Jaime Hunt: That you were starting out there? Yeah, 

[00:10:24] Kin Sejpal: so it was before all these lovely accolades, which, you know, timing is everything, [00:10:30] but I will say Terry Thompson too was, was quite a pace setter. And she was also awarded the higher ed market of the year at AMA very early in her career in higher education. So this.[00:10:45] 

[00:10:45] Kin Sejpal: In 2009 that I started at Purdue and, uh, which is when we started doing brand research and formulating a brand strategy. And I was the project manager for the entire [00:11:00] tool year long initiative. 

[00:11:03] Jaime Hunt: So when you were, you mentioned that your undergraduate degree is from India. What is, what is your undergraduate major management.

[00:11:13] Kin Sejpal: Okay. So. [00:11:15] I can expand a little bit on that because you really didn't have many choices in India. At the time when you pursued your bachelor's degrees, there were essentially three tracks. [00:11:30] You either went into the commerce slash management discipline. You went into the arts, or you went into the sciences slash engineer.

[00:11:42] Kin Sejpal: Those were really the only [00:11:45] three options. If you wanted to pursue a bachelor's degree, then perhaps there were opportunities to specialize, but not many. So it was really by process of elimination and the available [00:12:00] options. But my work in PR, um, and in India was really more marketing focused. So I don't know that my education and my.

[00:12:11] Kin Sejpal: Professional endeavors. We're very [00:12:15] much aligned at the time, again, a rent with what I was provided as options and opportunities, but I'm glad I got that because I think I got a broad perspective of management [00:12:30] very early in my education. But then I got real hands on experience at ACE productions in India as well.

[00:12:41] Jaime Hunt: Hey, off. I hope you're enjoying this episode of confessions of a higher ed [00:12:45] CMO. I want to take just a quick moment to thank my friends at nectar who made this new enroll five podcast possible nectar brings affordable communications infrastructure to college campuses. It's like slack, but for the higher ed student experience, nectar integrates seamlessly with all [00:13:00] major element.

[00:13:00] Jaime Hunt: Making it easy for instructors and administrators to build emergent learning communities in all of their classes in groups without the extra work, their focus is on boosting student engagement and reducing instructor stress. They building a learning community in every classroom [00:13:15] by leveraging familiar technology like instant messaging.

[00:13:19] Jaime Hunt: Nick to prepare students for the remote yet collaborative work environment of the future. You can learn more about their platform by heading on over to nectar that's N E C T I [00:13:30] r.io, and be sure to tell the team that Jamie sent you their way. So when you were a little girl, what were you dreaming that you would grow up to be?

[00:13:40] Kin Sejpal: Oh gosh, I will tell you it was. [00:13:45] Uh, higher education CML. Um, I wish we knew what the range of options are and work at the time because there was, you know, even now I feel like you, you [00:14:00] go to a school or you see a high, you know, a middle school, elementary school, whether you have career days and you have the quintessential, you know, whether it's a pilot or a firefighter or a nurse or a doctor, et cetera.

[00:14:14] Kin Sejpal: [00:14:15] So, yeah, I knew that I'll be doing something with people and that's really, as far as I got, and then there was a time where I was really enjoying my extracurricular activities, especially dance [00:14:30] and theater. And so I thought maybe that could become my career. And so I pursued that on the side, if you will, for a long time.

[00:14:42] Kin Sejpal: But it was pretty obvious that [00:14:45] that was not going to take me places that it was best kept as a hobby also because I don't think I would get paid for my talents. I don't think it was that good. 

[00:14:57] Jaime Hunt: I was, when I think about when I was a [00:15:00] little kid, You bring up like doctors, nurses, that sort of thing. Those are the careers you see on TV.

[00:15:07] Jaime Hunt: I was a first-generation college student and it was sort of, I didn't know what the options were. I didn't have [00:15:15] any exposure to any of that. And I majored in journalism, but my original college major was biology. I wanted to study turtles and you could get me going on a whole thing about turtles if you, if you had the time to and the inclination, [00:15:30] but, um, I sort of fell into marketing and I think that happens a lot.

[00:15:35] Jaime Hunt: It 

[00:15:36] Kin Sejpal: does. I've seen, I don't know how many people I might've encountered through my career that really did not start out as a marketing major. [00:15:45] Um, it's all different tracks, all different pathways. Um, I mean, one of my favorite people, it is a bit Scott Johnson, um, from Simpson Scarborough, like she was a math major.

[00:15:59] Kin Sejpal: I, I [00:16:00] remember her saying that she just fell in love with statistics and started doing research and data and then got into, and then founded the company and did primarily brand research. And now how far they've come, but yeah, it's, uh, it become [00:16:15] from Rooney any and all backgrounds, um, which is interesting, but I also feel like there's an educational component here that is missing that hopefully that we can.

[00:16:28] Kin Sejpal: Help others figure out [00:16:30] there are options, um, and figure those out early in the career, as opposed to like, oh, 20 years ago, I wish I had done that. You know, I, I hope that we don't have many [00:16:45] people who have, who are in that place of regret. Um, and that really happens through education and exposure. So. 

[00:16:54] Jaime Hunt: Yeah, I think I don't regret my early career cause I really enjoyed being a journalist.[00:17:00] 

[00:17:00] Jaime Hunt: Um, but I do wish that I would've had exposure to marketing a little bit earlier and had more intentionality for my career. I sort of stumbled into my career. And this, this episode [00:17:15] is kind of about that. Prepping yourself for the CMO role. Um, and I'm interested in what your. Path or what you've done to prepare yourself for a CMO role.

[00:17:28] Kin Sejpal: Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned about [00:17:30] intentionality because for awhile there, you know, even though that was something I aspired to be, there were a lot of things that got in the way of that pursued. And now I can, I can delve into that a little bit [00:17:45] later, but from a, you know, I think. It's really how we manage brands.

[00:17:52] Kin Sejpal: Right? You manage your institution as a brand, you manage higher education as a brand. You [00:18:00] manage yourself as a brand. So if that is something that you know, you want to do, you kind of figure out, okay, this is what I aspire to be. And here's all the steps I need to take. Here's all the skills I need [00:18:15] to gain here.

[00:18:16] Kin Sejpal: All the experiences I need to have. In order to position myself for this ultimate goal. So I really think of it as, as really your personal brand development or I guess your [00:18:30] professional brand development. And I, I got more intentional as opportunities allow me to, so one of the restrictions for me was I came from a different [00:18:45] country and so I really had to work through all the.

[00:18:50] Kin Sejpal: Let's say legal hurdles to get to where I wanted to be. So oftentimes I didn't even have a choice in what I could and could not [00:19:00] pursue because of the restrictions within which I was working. So with that aside, which is a big caveat, I was really getting involved in a lot of. [00:19:15] Associations right from the get-go.

[00:19:19] Kin Sejpal: I was in the local west Lafayette, Indiana chapter of the American advertising Federation. AME did not have a local chapter there, so I didn't, [00:19:30] I could not join anything there, but I joined the AAF. Um, as a student member, then I became a professional member. Then I served on the committee to plan. All the [00:19:45] events and speakers, et cetera.

[00:19:47] Kin Sejpal: So I, I, you know what, again, whatever was possible and available in that small town and what I could do as a volunteer, I feel like I did. Um, [00:20:00] I had a brief stint in DC. I was. Going to a lot of meetups, uh, for those DCS, like buzzing with meetups, which is just people with common interests getting together or, [00:20:15] and, and networking over drinks or appetizers, or what have you assignment to a lot of marketing and higher education related meetups.

[00:20:23] Kin Sejpal: Um, so I've always been intentional and active in the [00:20:30] field. And it doesn't come very naturally to me, I'm not an extra word. And just to put myself out there, it has been difficult, but something I'm more and more comfortable with. Now, 

[00:20:44] Jaime Hunt: [00:20:45] do you have any advice for people who are uncomfortable with getting out there?

[00:20:50] Kin Sejpal: Yeah. That's a great question. Well, you know, Well, now there's the opportunity to do so many things [00:21:00] virtually that if you just did want to get out and be in a crowd of people, you know, just a one on one zoom coffee, you know, perhaps start there and allow [00:21:15] yourself to just learn and absorb what the other person has to say.

[00:21:18] Kin Sejpal: Ask questions. You don't have to be doing all the talking. Um, sometimes people have. No, you go do these events or you network or whatnot, and you really have to have a [00:21:30] lot of content to talk about, but you just have to be curious, I think, and, and not just curious in a fake kind of way, but really genuinely curious about people's journeys or how, how they do [00:21:45] what they do and, and things of that sort.

[00:21:47] Kin Sejpal: And that can be. In a large group setting or one-on-one so, you know, whatever people's comfort level is, or you can go to a conference and the conferences of all shapes and [00:22:00] sizes, the conferences now, both virtually or in person. And, you know, there are small group sessions. They're like round tables, or there are massive keynotes and where you are with a hundred, [00:22:15] 200, 500 other people.

[00:22:16] Kin Sejpal: So I think. The virtual world has allowed us that opportunity to really connect, even if connect in multiple ways and connect at our own comfort level. So I think people can definitely take [00:22:30] advantage of that. 

[00:22:31] Jaime Hunt: Yeah. I think the virtual conferences have been really a boon because you get the opportunity to.

[00:22:39] Jaime Hunt: I tend to learn network without necessarily having to have the travel budget. So in the past couple [00:22:45] of years, I've been able to go to a lot more conferences, um, than I have in the past. And I think I was an incredibly shy person. And why would somebody who's shy, pursued journalism, but I go into those [00:23:00] settings with, I can always ask questions.

[00:23:02] Jaime Hunt: I don't have to, if I don't have to be prepared to talk about. Anything in particular, as long as I can ask questions. And that's usually what I tell my interns when they're approaching a networking opportunity, like, don't be [00:23:15] nervous. Just ask people, just be a curious person. 

[00:23:19] Kin Sejpal: Yeah. People love talking about themselves and just give them that opportunity, give them that floor.

[00:23:26] Kin Sejpal: And you have no idea how far that could go in [00:23:30] terms of a conversation. And yeah, if you go on a virtual conference, Tonya video off, if you want, you know, when, if you feel that it's just a sensory overload for your introvert itself, you know, and then come back on later, you know, there's [00:23:45] just ways to work around your own personality and comfort level that doesn't have to doesn't have to be all that difficult.

[00:23:55] Kin Sejpal: But at the same time, I think just continued. Pushing yourself [00:24:00] just to tad Vista, a baby step farther, I think, and help in the long run. 

[00:24:06] Jaime Hunt: I feel like the networking part of preparing yourself to be a COO is really, really important. Like it's, [00:24:15] whether you're doing it on social media or you're doing it on podcasts, or you're going to conferences or virtual conferences, I I've heard the saying, you know, If you do things right, you don't have to interview for a job.

[00:24:28] Jaime Hunt: You're just [00:24:30] people think of you. And I think that that's really, really true, obviously public higher ed in particular, they're not just necessarily going to hire somebody off the street without an interview process, but there's something to be said there. You mentioned earlier that you took it upon yourself to [00:24:45] approach Terry, to talk about marketing at Purdue and that little spark of something being that person that will ask that question, I think is so.

[00:24:56] Jaime Hunt: And have you had that happen to you on the other side, have you had a [00:25:00] student or a young marketer approached you for that in that same sort of way? 

[00:25:05] Kin Sejpal: Yes, absolutely. I have had many and most often they actually turn out to. International students. I think they kind of [00:25:15] feel that kinship with me. I don't know, but I have to mention that word because for awhile there, I had my own sort of volunteer gig going on called kinship career services for international students.[00:25:30] 

[00:25:30] Kin Sejpal: Um, because as an international student, Struggling to get career advice and learn from people who have been in my shoes, because some of the hurdles that I had to go through were quite [00:25:45] different from people who are perhaps born and raised here, or have a different citizenship status, or they just happen to be in stem fields, which also gives them a little bit of a different pathway and more options and [00:26:00] opportunities.

[00:26:01] Kin Sejpal: When I find myself going through some of that, my, on my own and figuring it out, if you will, I'm like, I want to do this for other people. So when I, when [00:26:15] I launched kinship, I had quite a few international students reach out to me and asked me for advice. And they may or may not be pre-sold may not be interested in marketing per se.

[00:26:27] Kin Sejpal: They just wanted to know. He [00:26:30] as an international student. And if you wanted to work here, how did you go about it? How did you position yourself and what did you do differently? Because, because sometimes they just look at their experience on paper and [00:26:45] all of the experience might be from a different country, or we not being the exact same major because like I'm sad, you know, in India, my options for majors were so limited.

[00:26:56] Kin Sejpal: So how do you get around some of those hurdles? So, [00:27:00] yeah. Yeah. I actually had a student from RIT reach out just this morning, asking for some help and guidance. Um, and she's originally from China and I'll be meeting with her and hopefully I can help [00:27:15] her, you know, in a meaningful way. 

[00:27:17] Jaime Hunt: I love that. You're hoping the next generation.

[00:27:21] Jaime Hunt: Like, I think I talked with Jason about this in episode two, thought the idea of prepping the next generation of [00:27:30] CMOs or marketers and trying to diversify our profession. I think, I think. About my time in the UNC system and all of the big schools, the marketing offices were headed by men, white men [00:27:45] specifically.

[00:27:46] Jaime Hunt: And, um, the, the rest of the, the smaller campuses, it was, you know, women, women everywhere. Um, but that, it was really striking that that difference as a, as a woman and as an [00:28:00] immigrant and as a woman of color, what challenges do you feel that. Needs to be overcome for, for women in the same sort of situation.

[00:28:11] Kin Sejpal: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's really [00:28:15] why I do what I do. I think part of it is to really not just talk the talk and walk the walk, and I feel like new industry, it should be all white and all. [00:28:30] Just period. And I was, I saw the same thing you did until again, I was graduating and I saw a woman CMO hired at the first one hired at Purdue.

[00:28:42] Kin Sejpal: And that was very inspiring. But [00:28:45] as I started getting into the field more and more, I did not see many people that looked like me and, uh, especially not a leadership positions and. So it was, it was very important. [00:29:00] Um, but there, I will say it, you know, it came with its challenges. Um, you know, I mentioned the immigration issue being one big one that, you know, some companies or organizations, I [00:29:15] should say, just had policies plain and simple that they could not sponsor somebody from the outside.

[00:29:26] Kin Sejpal: And because that would require [00:29:30] incurring extra costs and doing more paperwork. So already those doors were shut and I was not paying that. Good. Get me past that in some organizations. So really trying to [00:29:45] not only help people understand that I'm good at what I do, but why I'm better. Then somebody who is from here and why that investment is [00:30:00] worth it.

[00:30:01] Kin Sejpal: So the whole idea of ROI, like we talk about with educational institutions and what not. I had to talk about my own ROI. I had to talk about like, yeah, I know there's some upfront legalities to [00:30:15] work through. We're open to it, but they just felt that maybe it was a little bit of a hassle and, you know, would it be worth it, et cetera.

[00:30:24] Kin Sejpal: And I had to, I had to really help them understand why [00:30:30] this would be, why investing in me as a candidate would be a good idea for them in the long run and not just investing in. As, you know, filling a role, but investing in me and doing [00:30:45] all the things that they needed to do. So I'm very fortunate that I had Purdue university believe in me in that regard, because when it did come, when the time did come for that conversation.

[00:30:58] Kin Sejpal: So after I [00:31:00] graduate, I have a few months where. Work without that sponsorship and work authorization, but then I did have to ask for that and the made it happen. And, um, and that just goes to show that, you know, [00:31:15] you really want to align with the organizational values. You know, if the organization is talking about diversity and inclusion and being a global university, et cetera, how is it doing that really?

[00:31:28] Kin Sejpal: And. [00:31:30] This was proof that they were doing that and they could do that. And RIT does that as well. Except when I came to RIT, I did not need, um, I do not need well catheterization because I got my permanent residency by the time. But [00:31:45] even so I am very particular about the kind of values or university espouses and making sure that that aligned with mine.

[00:31:55] Kin Sejpal: And that's where I can do my best. 

[00:31:58] Jaime Hunt: So when you talked [00:32:00] about creating an ROI pitch for yourself, how do you tackle that? Because I think that could apply not just for people looking to have the, have their employer make an investment in, you know, the [00:32:15] legalities of hiring, but just generally, um, how do you, how did you approach that conversation with yourself?

[00:32:24] Kin Sejpal: You just have to show proof. I mean, you show proof of all the work you've done [00:32:30] and you've you tell your compelling story, you have your elevator pitch. I mean, some of the basic mantras and branding really apply here as well, and you help them understand that, [00:32:45] Hey, here is what I'm bringing to the table that is better, different than special.

[00:32:50] Kin Sejpal: Um, that perhaps you might not get with other candidates in my case, whether it's my global experience, [00:33:00] whether it was, um, you know, after I went in, got my MBA as well. So whether it's chalky by just the fact that I've always continued to upskill myself, I got two master's degrees. I had a bachelor's degree in [00:33:15] India.

[00:33:15] Kin Sejpal: I got a certificate in India, and then I got. So market resource certificates in us, I've always continued to pursue education myself as a lifelong learner. So really being very [00:33:30] articulate and thoughtful about what you want to put in front of people, the hiring managers that you know will set you apart, you know, that.

[00:33:39] Kin Sejpal: You know, right from the get go. Like I already had a couple of publications in [00:33:45] journals that I had coauthored with my professor, you know, things of that sort that the industry doesn't really need or look for, but it does set you apart and shows that yeah, you actually have something of value to add to the industry that was [00:34:00] compelling enough to be published.

[00:34:01] Kin Sejpal: So. So, yeah, just, just seeing what sets you apart and then putting that out on paper and having that in your pitch with,

[00:34:12] Kin Sejpal: Hey, y'all Zach here from enrolled fight. If you liked this [00:34:15] podcast, chances are, you'll like other enroller five shows too. Our podcast network is growing by the month. And we've got a plethora of marketing at missions and higher ed technology shows that are jam packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks that are all designed to empower you to become a better [00:34:30] higher ed professional.

[00:34:31] Kin Sejpal: Our shows feature a selection of the industry's best as your host learn from Mickey veins, Jeremy tears, Jimmy hunt for in Meyers, Jamie Leeson, and many, many. You can learn more about the whole five podcast [00:34:45] network@podcastsdotenrolledfive.org. Our shows help pirate marketers and admissions professionals.

[00:34:48] Kin Sejpal: Find their next big idea. Find yours at podcasts dot enroller, fi.org. 

[00:34:56] Jaime Hunt: That's awesome. I think that's really helpful advice for people [00:35:00] early in their careers. Are there still skills that you're working on honing. I know now you've got that CMO title, but are there still skills you're hoping to hone in this next role?

[00:35:13] Kin Sejpal: I feel like I'm always holding [00:35:15] skills. I think, you know, first of all, the marketing and marketing landscape is always changing. So I think just being up to date with the changing face. The [00:35:30] intersection of marketing and technology. I think that's something to keep up with no matter where you are in your career, um, you know, every day there's a new privacy setting that you have to think about, or there's this move to [00:35:45] Google for?

[00:35:45] Kin Sejpal: You know, what have you, there's always going to be things that you want to think about and learn. And although I have. I do consider myself to be more of a marketing generalist than a specialist. [00:36:00] So I, I known enough, I feel like to ask the right questions and to understand where things are going and what is effective versus what could be just placating [00:36:15] or vanity metrics that feel like things that are effective.

[00:36:18] Kin Sejpal: So I feel like. Enough of that and continue to hone those skills to really know the subject that I'm asking about or the topic I'm asking about. But outside of [00:36:30] functional skills, I think people's skills are always getting finessed, right. And especially as you move up the ladder, it really becomes more and more about people management.

[00:36:41] Kin Sejpal: And do we, you know, leading by influence. [00:36:45] How'd you get your peers on board? How do you work with your team so that their morale is high and they feel valued? How do you manage up? Whether it's your immediate supervisor? I E [00:37:00] the president or the board. I think there's just so many components to people, skills and leadership.

[00:37:08] Kin Sejpal: And I know you talk about this topic a lot as well, especially as we leave. [00:37:15] And create a more and more diverse and inclusive organization. What does that mean? What does it mean for us to be learning? And what does that mean for us to really not just [00:37:30] understand it, but embrace it. And what does it mean to, to not only lead with.

[00:37:39] Kin Sejpal: With goals and metrics, but what does it mean to lead with empathy and compassion? And so there's [00:37:45] just, there's so much work to be done there and so much that can continually be learned and finessed there. I feel like that's going to be one of the, the ongoing skillsets and now really leading in a virtual [00:38:00] environment.

[00:38:00] Kin Sejpal: You know, if you have people that are working remotely, how do you. Culture and sustain that culture, um, you know, made that people feel a sense of belonging. So that's where my focus is right now. And I feel like it will [00:38:15] be for the foreseeable future. 

[00:38:18] Jaime Hunt: So it sounds like you're going to be building a team in your new role.

[00:38:22] Jaime Hunt: What are you going to be looking for when you start to post positions and hire into those roles? 

[00:38:29] Kin Sejpal: Oh gosh. [00:38:30] Everything, you know, I think I recently read, or re-read Kim Scott's book, radical candor, and she talks about [00:38:45] having rock stars and superstars. And I think just being cognizant of that, that, you know, valuing the rockstars who really have that institutional knowledge and really have.

[00:38:59] Kin Sejpal: Uh, [00:39:00] subject matter, understanding maybe are not passionate about growth, but are passionate about their particular skill and getting deep into that skill. And then others who are really constantly [00:39:15] learning and evolving and wanting to go up that ladder and really grow and help the organization grow. So that's really more from a philosophical approach, but from.

[00:39:27] Kin Sejpal: Functional or technical expertise. You [00:39:30] know, I feel like it, at this point, it's really going to be driven a lot by the gaps that are currently identified and which are, you know, in the branding area [00:39:45] and the marketing intelligence area and the content marketing content strategy or digital area. I think those are good.

[00:39:54] Kin Sejpal: Primary areas of focus now, whether or not those become [00:40:00] actual full-time hires or, you know, there's a combination of ranked by our own, you know, where we have some people in-house, but we also outsource some certain functions. And I know you and I were in a recent [00:40:15] conversation about that, you know, how do you bring.

[00:40:18] Kin Sejpal: A team where, when things are constantly changing and how do you continue to upskill your staff? Or do you rely on people outside who are doing that? As part of [00:40:30] their day-to-day work is to keep, to keep up with the changes. So, you know, that's a little bit of TBD on where I might start and where I might grow and what I would like to have in-house versus.[00:40:45] 

[00:40:47] Kin Sejpal: Versus, um, rely on some expert partners for, but overall I do know that I value and if it wasn't obvious already through this conversation, I do value different perspectives. [00:41:00] Um, and that could come from really people from all backgrounds. So I w I would like to try and create a diverse and inclusive organization as much as possible.[00:41:15] 

[00:41:15] Jaime Hunt: I'm going to be really excited to see what you put together. I think it's going to be absolutely amazing. They're really lucky to have you, before we close out, I would love to find out what advice you would give to [00:41:30] an aspiring higher ed CMO. 

[00:41:32] Kin Sejpal: Yeah. I feel like right now might feel like, okay, this is not the area you want to be leading.

[00:41:40] Kin Sejpal: I feel like this just, you know, there's so many challenges. I know the [00:41:45] pandemic has really disrupted everybody in everything. So, you know, I can see the hesitancy in certain people or certain functions and not wanting to perhaps seek this role out. But I would say. [00:42:00] That it is also a very exciting time. I haven't seen this industry come together the way it has, you know, we've, we've had, you know, we've organically thanks to Twitter.

[00:42:13] Kin Sejpal: And perhaps some other [00:42:15] media we've organically created ways to bring people together regardless of the institutional affiliation. Um, I've also, you know, never seen a more mature marketing. [00:42:30] Function in higher education. I know we have ways to go when you compare to corporate, but the fact that we don't have to convince people that you need somebody to do brand management or [00:42:45] that brand, your institution is a brand or that students are your customers, all those things that we couldn't say and do it at one point that we are mature.

[00:42:55] Kin Sejpal: Right now. And that the leadership recognizes the potential, the [00:43:00] fact that so many CMOs have a seat at the table or the cabinet level, I feel like now is a really good time to pursue it. So what I'll say that if, for people who are even considering is [00:43:15] this the right path for me, but the other thing I would say is get out of your own political, I think the broader.

[00:43:25] Kin Sejpal: You get with just understanding the institution, [00:43:30] the better chances of you making an impact, not just with marketing, but with really having that broad perspective. I know Terry Terry Flannery talks about that. Right? I feel like the, that marketing [00:43:45] leadership are perfectly poised to get a broad view of the institution.

[00:43:53] Kin Sejpal: They see. What's coming in and how they, how people are coming in. They see the current state [00:44:00] and the student experience and they see the alumni and the donor side, and they really can look at the end to end journey. So look at that end to end journey and try and get involved and understand in [00:44:15] understanding that.

[00:44:15] Kin Sejpal: So, you know, during the pandemic, I. I guess unfortunately, or fortunately that situation allowed me to work closer with student affairs, for instance, and do some [00:44:30] campaigns there, you know, unfortunately, or fortunately the black lives matter movement. A catalyst for really getting us talking more and more with our diversity and inclusion division, [00:44:45] you know?

[00:44:45] Kin Sejpal: So those types of things should be happening and we shouldn't be waiting for a catalyst, like a crisis to get groups together. So get out of your vertical, get out of your division [00:45:00] and, and see if you can get involved in committees. Raise your hand at, you know, if somebody is looking for something. I know, I definitely raised my hand every time somebody tapped into me to even volunteer with case or AMA [00:45:15] or, um, you know, there's, you know, there's a bunch of professional development conferences and committees and commissions that, um, I feel like suddenly there's a lot of [00:45:30] momentum around that.

[00:45:31] Kin Sejpal: And. Being tapped to play a role in that. I, I jumped at those opportunities because I think that really bode wealth or my next step, which was to be a C. 

[00:45:44] Jaime Hunt: I think [00:45:45] that those opportunities, that's one area where I think we've done the same sort of thing. Like, oh, you want I say yes, like it's the, you asked me to do something.

[00:45:55] Jaime Hunt: Yes, I'll, I'll do that too. Almost to my detriment in 2022. I've over [00:46:00] committed a lot in 2022, but there's. Opportunities to talk to other people and get different perspectives and be a part of a community. And I talk about this a lot on this podcast, but this community [00:46:15] is so great. And so giving and so receptive to sharing viewpoints and ideas with other people.

[00:46:24] Jaime Hunt: And I, I just don't know if that happens outside of higher ed as much. So, um, [00:46:30] can tell me where people can find you online. 

[00:46:34] Kin Sejpal: Yeah. So I'm pretty active on both Twitter and LinkedIn. I think that those are probably best. So Twitter is act kin, Sage pal, K I N S E J P [00:46:45] a L. And if on LinkedIn, we search for Kim Sage Paul, hopefully you'll 

[00:46:50] Jaime Hunt: find me any other closing thoughts before we close out the episode.

[00:46:56] Kin Sejpal: I just want to give a shout out to all my mentors along the way [00:47:00] I noticed. A conversation about my journey to becoming a CMO. And in the time that you and I decided on this podcast, I have landed a position and it's been [00:47:15] S it's been so rewarding, but I, you know, I couldn't have done without. Some of the people.

[00:47:22] Kin Sejpal: I feel like if I call out a few names, I will miss out on others, but they know who they are. And they've been exceptionally [00:47:30] supportive and helping open doors. When I taught they were no doors left and, and yes. So just seek out mentors and stay in touch with them. Some of my mentors, I've known them now since 2009, since I [00:47:45] graduated and you know, we've never had.

[00:47:49] Kin Sejpal: Uh, former working relationship or anything, but I still seek them out and they still remember me and that's been immensely. 

[00:47:59] Jaime Hunt: That's [00:48:00] awesome. Well, Ken, thank you so much for being on the show and thank you so much for listening. Don't forget. You can join the conversation on Twitter by using the hashtag higher ed CMO and be sure to follow me on Twitter at, at Jamie hunt IMC.

[00:48:14] Jaime Hunt: That's [00:48:15] J a I M P H U N T I M C for more opportunities to connect and be well, and let's go bust some silence.

[00:48:26] Kin Sejpal: Hey all Zach here from enrollerify. I hope you enjoyed this episode of [00:48:30] confessions of a higher ed CMO with Jaime hunt. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and hit that follow and subscribe button below. Furthermore, as you've got just two minutes to spare, we would greatly appreciate you leaving a rating and a review of this show on apple podcast.[00:48:45] 

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