How to Spend Year-End Money When Digital Ads Aren’t Working

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Jaime Gleason: This is a, a normal higher ed thing to fall prey to like, Hey, what is the one thing that we need to do to use all this money so that way we get it out of the budget, so that way no one takes it away. But then also so we can make an impact. And it's, it's not one thing, it's, it's absolutely not one thing.

[00:00:22] Have you ever wondered if there is a different, maybe even a better way to tackle an enrollment or marketing issue? Are there processes or practices in your institution that you wonder why does this exist and why has no one bothered to disrupt it? Or what about 

[00:00:39] Tony Fraga: a hot new enrollment marketing? That you've been asked to jump on, but you're not really sure how to do it the right way or even if it's worth doing at all, 

[00:00:49] Jaime Gleason: believe me, we get it.

[00:00:51] I'm Jamie Gleason, a 20 year veteran of higher ed who has worked both inside and outside the institution and on [00:01:00] the vendor side of enrollment 

[00:01:01] Tony Fraga: marketing. And I'm Tony Fraga, an 18 year recovering higher ed market. Who has seen just about every enrollment marketing model in the industry, and we've teamed up to launch the Pivot podcast to take an issue, a hurdle, or an outdated process, and suggest ways to pivot into a new direction or launch into a better process as much as possible.

[00:01:25] We'll use actual example. But we'll try to keep all the takeaways as fresh as 

[00:01:30] Jaime Gleason: possible. You'll laugh, heck you might even cry. But we promised this is a podcast that you won't want to miss. The Pivot is proud to be a part of the Enroll five Podcast Network, and you can subscribe to this podcast@enrollfive.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:01:52] Shane Kehl: And we're back for episode five of the Pivot. Um, Tony, you were dead in the middle of a sentence right as this [00:02:00] was about to start. I believe I heard this episode. I'm just gonna say episode with, and then let's start this episode with 

[00:02:05] Tony Fraga: the fact that this pivot's not fair. Not fair. I'm calling, I'm calling a flag.

[00:02:09] Flag on the play. This is an, this is an unfair period. This 

[00:02:13] Shane Kehl: trial. Good. This trial good. That's a good preface. Um, So let's dive into it then, and, and we can judge, we can let others judge whether it's fair or unfair. Cause I think plenty of people live in this. It's fair reality. And then they're probably thinking, well, my job isn't fair.

[00:02:27] I'm, I'm running into unfair challenges all the time. So, let's see. All right, so we're a couple months from the end of the fiscal year, um, and looking around surplus 50 K you get to. Between, you know, now and the end of the fiscal year, let's say that's roughly two months, maybe three. Um, so you have 50 K to spend, but you gotta pivot off of list buys aren't working and digital ads aren't performing well enough where you feel comfortable reinvesting a large portion of that money back in.

[00:02:58] Obviously you're making a push [00:03:00] to try and, you know, get some last minute applications, deposits, whatever it might be for the end of the year. What are you, what are you doing with that 50? 

[00:03:08] Jaime Gleason: I wanna know before we get into the pivot, what's not fair about this? Like what do you think is not fair about this?

[00:03:15] Because I think this is actually the reality that a lot of people do live in. And let's just be honest. Sometimes the decisions that come down from the higher, the powers that be aren't fair, but we have to live with them. 

[00:03:28] Tony Fraga: Well, what's not fair I think is the super. , not the superficial, but the, the parameters that we, we are stuck with, with the pivot.

[00:03:36] Because I actually think most schools would spend it on digital ads. Yeah. And or would buy a list. Yeah. Um, or the next error tactic I'd want to jump to is seo, but we just talked about that sneak, sneak preview previous episode. If you haven't listened to that one, that's a dang good pivot on what you do at 25 K.

[00:03:53] And we talked all about seo, so I feel like we've, we just took. Three tactics that I think [00:04:00] are viable options for some schools. That's why I think it's not fair. Yeah. But hence the, hence the pivot challenge. I guess I should just embrace it and stop complaining. If everything was 

[00:04:09] Shane Kehl: SEO in digital ads, we'd be, uh, running low on episodes.

[00:04:16] Jaime Gleason: don't tell anyone . 

[00:04:19] Tony Fraga: There's a lot to talk about with just those, but Yes. Yeah, there is. There 

[00:04:22] Jaime Gleason: is. There is. All right, so I, um, okay. I'm gonna put some dates on because I feel like I have to, right? Yeah. Like let's just say it's April 1st. We've got three months left. We've got $50,000. We're try and I think the other thing that you didn't necessarily point out, but I think is inferred, at least by me, , we're trying to use this money to make an impact on the immediate fall.

[00:04:43] Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Like this isn't a long-term play. This is like a short-term play. What do we do with that? Correct. And 

[00:04:48] Tony Fraga: you guys spend the money by the end of the fiscal year? It's for most schools, right? It's probably June 30th. Yeah. For most schools. So you've got two, three months to spend this money. It's a blitz and it's gotta impact this fall.

[00:04:58] Mm-hmm. . Yeah. 

[00:04:59] Jaime Gleason: What do you do? [00:05:00] What do I. . Yeah, I, I think the other set of variables that's involved in this is we don't know what's happened so far, so that's I think a little bit, but let's just assume that we've had the normal pallet of emails and visit opportunities and things that are just kind of standard fair.

[00:05:15] What I would do is, oh, this is so hard. . This is a hard one because this is like the, you know what 

[00:05:23] Tony Fraga: I mean? Because you don't have the data, you don't have the, yeah. Know the knowledge you need. Which would you would make those pivots off of? Yeah. Because we're so used to pivoting off of data, information, data, data, data driven decisions.

[00:05:35] Where's the gaps? What's not working, what is working really well? , and we can't even, we're taking out the ability to double down in certain. Maybe that's the first pivot. We're not really, maybe that's where you should spend the money. Yeah, you should start, I would spend, maybe we need to reserve some of that money.

[00:05:51] I don't care whose time you gotta buy, but like how can you get the answers you need to spend, if you could spend [00:06:00] $2,000 to spend the other 48,000 really? Well, maybe that's what you should do first. Yeah, 

[00:06:04] Jaime Gleason: that's a good, that's what I was thinking is like how do you. It's either, it's either you wanna like figure out a way to get those insights immediately.

[00:06:12] And I think it's a, it's best an and, or, sorry, it's best a both and not an either or. How do I get those insights? But then also set myself up for those insights in future years so that I'm not ever operating in the absence of data. Like you wanna be able to say, Hey, this year, last year, April 1st we got this insight, we made this decision and.

[00:06:35] it brought us like 16 more students bef you know, between, you know, April one and June 30th. That was good. That was like, more than, that was three times as many as we had the previous year. How do we make sure that we do that again? Um, so my pivot is a little bit more analog and I think that's the whole thing with this that becomes a little harder is that a lot of our dis I think a lot of our, uh, [00:07:00] a lot of our recommendations here are gonna be.

[00:07:04] they're gonna be like old fashioned. They're gonna feel old fashioned. However, I think though there's like a place for that. I think we, we live in this highly digital age, you know, where we go to SEO and digital leads like immediately. So my pivot would be, Make a early summer travel plan in order to meet up, do like regional meetups in coffee shops where you're buying people, like buying, not just anyone.

[00:07:30] You're buying incomplete leads, you're, you're creating meetings, you're going after them. The pursuit, you're the pursuer and you're actually spending that money trying to make that investment into them. Because I think higher ed sometimes falls, trap this, this, this, uh, we fall. to the belief that it's, um, that it's like a seller's market and it's a buyer's market.

[00:07:57] Mm-hmm. . And I think sometimes we need to get on our feet a [00:08:00] little bit more and run after the ones that we really want to get, instead of like waiting for them to come to us. So my pivot is let's spend, you know, 20, $30,000 at least. Finding the pockets of people that we're missing and, and bringing the roadshow to them so that we can answer their questions so that we can meet them, so that we can work through this process.

[00:08:23] Give them a taste of like what it looks like. that, that's my first one. I have another thought that I'm brewing on, but I'm gonna shut up for a second. . 

[00:08:31] Tony Fraga: That's good. I, I like that. I think my mind goes to, again, in the limit as, as there's, I love the old school and I definitely think there are some analog, good old school tactics that could be done.

[00:08:42] Yeah. There really like. There's really so many things you could do at 50,000. I actually appreciate that amount of money. So for any of these schools that are actually considering something like this, mm-hmm. , I can just say it's very helpful to have 50 K because I actually think 50 K means you can do two or four things.[00:09:00] 

[00:09:00] Yeah, you don't have to just do one thing. I think if you're 25 K or less, you're really looking at one big thing to, if you wanna make enough of an impact. Sure. Um, and I think 50 K to me immediately means I can pivot and do multiple things at the same time. So for me, One of the first things I would do is think about how to, like, how to market and promote an incentive of some sort.

[00:09:25] Yeah. I think you have to have an incentive that is the excuse by which you really push this app, this, this, cuz you're, this is only for programs that are still gonna take applications for this fall and you, you can bring 'em in. , you've actually been marketing and talking about these programs for a while now.

[00:09:43] Mm-hmm. . So what's different? You need an excuse. You need the reason. Yeah. So, and, and it can be anything. It doesn't have to be the most sexy incentive, but any incentive will do. And app fee waiver. I've seen some schools get very creative, um, even on the undergrad side, you [00:10:00] know, particularly like. Free iPads or free this, or they'll cover books into it.

[00:10:04] Books and fees for your first semester or whatever that is. But any sort of incentive that just really, because it's actually not the incentive that's the most attractive, it's the excuse for you to be promoting out again. Now again, admittedly, you've just taken out the ability to do digital ad promotes, so I can't do that , but I would still find a way that you've tied my arms behind my back a.

[00:10:25] I always still find a way to promote these incentives, whether that's putting stuff on your website and I've gotta pay a designer to really design some graphics for the website, organic social media promotions, unpaid, unpaid, it's , I'm following the rules shade. Good job. And, um, so I would start with an incentive and start promoting that aggressively.

[00:10:46] So there's this logical reason as to why I'm in your face again, and why we're doing what you're saying, Jamie, which is going out and getting them. Yeah, it's, it's. It's not the 16th time we're saying We're here, apply now such and such school [00:11:00] and just yelling that louder. It's, oh hey, by the way. Yeah. Uh oh.

[00:11:06] Did you know? Or just announce best incentives. Hey, can you do a tuition reduction? Can your program now take 38 credits instead of 42? Like, I dunno. Those would be really cool things. Sure. But not everyone can do. , so any sort of incentive and promote it via the channels you have. So then I'd start adding it in and I think the next channel I go to, the second thing I'd do is email.

[00:11:29] I would revamp and rip out a different kind of short term blitz email com flow, because your existing com flow is probably too stretched out to be effective enough in this. So I'd use the money to pay copywriters, designers, and um, just email. Email marketing technologists who really know emails. I would analyze quickly all of my emails mm-hmm.

[00:11:52] from the past year and take the best of the best and come up with a, a wicked cool. Very creative, [00:12:00] very compelling email sequence to pro. You know, again, promote that incentive, but also all the other things that essentially drives mid-funnel leads to start an app or drives accepted students to deposit. I don't care if this is a yield campaign or a.

[00:12:17] Push to apply or whatever it is. But I think that takes time and energy and the money is used to speed up, speed it up. Normally that would take three or four months to do. You don't have three or four months. You gotta go live faster. So use that money to get an army of people to make that happen faster.

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[00:12:53] What doesn't it rank for that you think it should rank for? Okay. 1, 2, 3, 4. [00:13:00] Now, what are a few keyword opportunities that you could be winning on if you just simply tweaked some of your existing website? Copy. Got it. Okay. How'd you do? Ooh, not so hot. Not sure what you can, what you're currently ranking for, or not sure what you could be ranking for.

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[00:14:21] Jaime Gleason: I'm glad you articulated that cuz I was thinking that too. It's like it's really easy to fall, pray, and.

[00:14:27] This is a, a normal higher ed thing to fall prey to like, Hey, what is the one thing that we need to do to use all this money so that way we get it out of the budget so that way no one takes it away, but then also so we can make an impact. And it's, it's not one thing. It's, it's absolutely not one thing.

[00:14:46] Um, this one is off the, this was my second idea. Baking cuz I, because I do love, like what you said is like this would be a both and. , but I think this could be so cool and it's got [00:15:00] huge, like, like, um, technical implications that probably the, it would be a pain in the neck to actually pull it off. But this is the beauty of this podcast, right?

[00:15:07] We can like, we can dream, can dream big. Dream pivots. There's no red tape, Jamie. I know, I know. So think about this. Okay, so you have $50,000. Let's say that there are 50. . Well, let's say that there are like, like there are 50 in incomplete applicants that you are trying to convert. You've got, those are your targets.

[00:15:32] 50 people. What if you created or altered, optimized an existing comp flow and you did that with a couple thousand dollars, you know, because you had to do it quickly. You had to, you know, so it was sent out and, and optimized. Um, but what if we then, The remaining say $45,000 and converted that into tuition dollars, [00:16:00] where if these incomplete applicants signed up for, you know, a semester that they would, they would be credited one course or two credits or something like that, where you're actually giving them the money in additional funding or so, so, Like a scholarship.

[00:16:18] Like a scholarship. But it's more like a credit. Yeah. So that way I love that. So that way they don't have, like, there's not a thinking that we have to pay it every year. Mm-hmm. , it's more just an opening incentive 

[00:16:31] Shane Kehl: that is very much aligned with what I was just thinking. I originally started out with one idea and I changed as Tony was talking.

[00:16:39] Um, with 50 k I think I'm very similar to what you were just saying. I would. It cash payouts, not tuition. I think it sounds better to be like, we'll give you money rather than bonus. It's like a signing bonus credit. Bonus money. Yeah. Um, what I would do is I would allocate the first 10 K and [00:17:00] I would say I would have current students 

[00:17:02] Tony Fraga: refer 

[00:17:02] Shane Kehl: other people to submit their application.

[00:17:05] They can refer as many as they want. We have 10 k. We'll give you 500 bucks for each person you. Up to 10 K total. Go ahead. Students race, if they 

[00:17:13] Tony Fraga: get accepted, obviously if they, if they 

[00:17:15] Shane Kehl: enroll. Yes. Have to get accepted. Have to get accepted, that's it. Okay. Um, they get accepted, Jesus, they get 500 bucks up to 10 K total.

[00:17:22] Even if 

[00:17:22] Tony Fraga: they don't enroll, that's aggressive. And then 

[00:17:25] Shane Kehl: if they enroll, if they enroll, each person gets $2,000. The person who referred and the now enrolled student each get two K. You have 40 K to spend there. 20 students.

[00:17:40] Yeah. Great 

[00:17:41] Tony Fraga: For small schools and small programs where 20 students is all they need, but 

[00:17:45] Shane Kehl: you can fluctuate. Hundred. You can fluctuate those dollar amounts though. Yeah. For a big school you make, it's still five, I mean 500 bucks. I'd be like 500 

[00:17:51] Jaime Gleason: bucks is 500 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:17:54] Shane Kehl: Especially to a college student too, like that's a good chunk of change there.

[00:17:58] Tony Fraga: Yeah. I have never [00:18:00] heard of an institution of higher educat. doing something like that. I 

[00:18:04] Shane Kehl: just trademarked it. It's $4,000 to me for rights to use that campaign idea. , um, 

[00:18:11] Tony Fraga: I. 

[00:18:12] Jaime Gleason: Oh man. 

[00:18:13] Tony Fraga: But I think what's cool 

[00:18:14] Shane Kehl: about that too is I wonder what you're getting. You're getting access to an audience that would be really tough to tap into.

[00:18:18] Otherwise you're getting Yeah. Current students, probably freshman and sophomores. Sure. Um, to refer their younger friends, siblings, friends, whomever that might be hard for you to target, but already have some level of affinity for the school, or at least know about the school because they're probably a close connection of yours.

[00:18:35] Sure. Um, and so I think the likelihood of. a high number of referrals. Again, people are gonna be referring left and right. You alert them when the 10 K has been spent, but it might go over, people might be referring people that, you know, okay, budget's kind of all eaten up for that and other people are gonna trickle in after.

[00:18:51] So you're still getting a, a decent flow of people. Ideally. Um, then 

[00:18:56] Jaime Gleason: those people in the at the end are gonna be pissed though, you know that, but you [00:19:00] announce your 

[00:19:00] Shane Kehl: 10 Ken and say, Hey, sorry, can't, rules are rules. But then, yeah, then getting them to ultimately, Whereas, okay, I think with the enrolling thing, you got your friend to, you referred your friend, you weren't part of that 500 in the original 10 K.

[00:19:13] Um, but they enrolled. You get your, you each get your two K. Just because you missed out on the 500 doesn't mean you can't get the two K. Sure. So it's who enrolls faster, whoever submits their deposit first, whatever. Um, so you can still have an opportunity to win money, so you still have an incentive to refer your friends, but now it's a little bit harder.

[00:19:31] You're shooting for them to get accepted and enroll, and you get sure, 2000 bucks, but you don't get the immediate 500, or you could potentially get both if you're on top of it. 

[00:19:40] Tony Fraga: I like your idea. I, I would want to twist it in, in favor more for the admissions teams, the enrollment managers. I want to fill their meetings.

[00:19:50] I want to fill their chats. I want to fill their calls, their Zoom meetings, their in-person meetings. I want to use that money to, in. I want to keep my enrollment managers, my [00:20:00] advisors, my admissions coordinators, whatever you call 'em, I want them busy as all get up for the next three months. How can I make more qualified conversations?

[00:20:11] Because I'm gonna play the odds that, yep, if I can get more people talking one to one, ideally. Virtual meetings or in person. And ideally if you have any last minute events, I would want to promote the events as well. But Uhhuh, if I can get those one-on-one. , I'm gonna play the odds that people who talk to my people are more likely to apply and enroll.

[00:20:34] Mm-hmm. . Yep. So I would want to take a twist on your incentive, but make it a little easier, lower the dollar amounts, but just do like, refer a friend to talk, you know, who's who's, who's a qualified potential applicant, and just book some meeting with an admissions counselor with a serious interest about a program.

[00:20:51] Um, and I'd put that out to existing students in the programs of the school that I'm at. And or even other admitted [00:21:00] students who I know are deposited in coming and say, Hey, refer a friend. But the refer friend doesn't have to be like, for, for completing their app and being accepted, you're just referring them to talk to the admissions team and to have a conversation about the program.

[00:21:13] Um, or programs, plural. That's the, I want to get those calls, those 

[00:21:18] Shane Kehl: meetings, if you refer people to start their application and they do, I think part of that goes into setting. , your admissions team to be able to give those people a crash course on the university. Mm-hmm. , um, where you are getting that one-on-one meeting with this person.

[00:21:33] Right. Again, they were just referred, they probably haven't done all 

[00:21:36] Tony Fraga: their homework under the university. I just, that, I just think that's hard. I just think, I think if you tell me that, I think, I don't know if my friend Jamie's gonna apply, like that's a lot. But I could at least introduce Jamie to have a conversation about their programs because, , you know, I'm in such and such program, but I don't know the, the apply thing feels like a lot, and then I just give up at the beginning because you're, even though you're paying me a lot, 500 bucks, a [00:22:00] thousand dollars, I just don't know, like,

[00:22:03] That seems I've gotta get Jamie way further down the pipeline. Whereas what seems easy is like introducing Jamie to the institution. Mm-hmm. and Jamie and the admissions folks. The advisors talk about if there is a cool program he likes and play the numbers game that way. I don't know. Mm-hmm. . 

[00:22:20] Shane Kehl: Yeah. I'm thinking on the undergrads.

[00:22:21] I don't know that a, yeah, I 

[00:22:23] Jaime Gleason: feel like 17 old, there's old would 

[00:22:24] Shane Kehl: audience for grad. I feel like that's definitely the way to go. I feel like a 17 year old would be hesitant to be like, yeah, let's hop on a call. . Yeah. I don't know. I think they would be more likely to just like, let me fire off this application and then if I get accepted, that's a, that's a future me problem.

[00:22:40] Right, right, right. In that totally. Then I'll have the conversations, then I'll do more of the research, figure stuff out, whatever, have that conversation because I know they're interested in me rather than me doing it first. Mm-hmm. , um, which, yeah, I guess you're more just catering to your audience in their, maybe their level of maturity.

[00:22:54] But 

[00:22:54] Jaime Gleason: I, I really would wanna capitalize, and this, this obviously is contingent. [00:23:00] knowing some points of data, and you would know some of this, but I would really want to capitalize if, if at all possible, take the money and capitalize on people who have started or invested some sort of, you know, in, they've made some sort of investment already.

[00:23:17] I feel like that's the, the, the more sure money. Yeah, and maybe that's the other thing is like, maybe it's a 60 40 split, 60% of it goes. The, you know, final conversion or, you know, requalification of people who are already in the pipeline in some shape or form. And then another percentage of it goes toward like, what is the new student initiative?

[00:23:37] Where are the things like if we took all these things and mashed them up, how do we optimize the email comp flow? How do we put a, uh, truncated like spring travel schedule where we hand deliver? The news to existing inquiries or existing, you know, incomplete apps. Like, Hey, guess what? You're gonna get either this cash bonus or you're gonna get your first course [00:24:00] free because we're gonna pay for it for you.

[00:24:02] Like, what, how do we do all that? You know? Um, it's possible, but it, it depends on the size of your program, depends on the amount. I think you need, you're yeah. That you're gonna. 

[00:24:12] Tony Fraga: I think you need a multi-touch approach on that. Totally. To make that work. And I, that's where I'd put that money. I love that idea.

[00:24:17] And I would, I would, you might need to send a postcard out or a letter that lets them know, yeah, I would invest the money on like increasing your team's ability to make outbound calls to call all these next best people. Sure. If this is undergrad, you're calling your next best folks who've had some level of engagement but didn't finish the app or inquired and fell off the radar.

[00:24:36] Yeah, I get it. You're gonna get a bunch of voicemails, a bunch of nothings, but you're gonna burn. You're gonna go through your list and say, Hey, I'm the reason I'm calling, I'm not just nagging you again. I wanted to let you know about this thing that I don't think you know about. Yeah. In case you're still considering we have this incentive now there's this incentive.

[00:24:53] Yeah. You've sent it on print. You've called and left a message, or you've reached the person. You sent it an [00:25:00] email. I haven't known. You paid digital ads and then you call 'em, right? Just and your parents call the parents. And you get that out there. If you do a concentrated effort with that and you fund that, you're gonna have a lift in enrollment this fall.

[00:25:13] For sure. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:25:15] Shane Kehl: yeah. So smaller pivot and get a little more specific, let's say pivot than a pivot here we have, Ooh, a good base of STARTED applications who haven't made progress in the la They're like, you know, stale by a month, let's say. They haven't touched them. Yeah. What are you doing specifically?

[00:25:36] to get those people to just submit. If you have three-ish months, that can be a fairly aggressive timeline, particularly for grad. Mm-hmm. where there's no, like if you're going into undergrad, you're kind of probably making the decision like, I'm going this year, I gotta move now, um mm-hmm. . But if it's grad, you know, I could do this next year.

[00:25:52] I could do it in three years. I don't know. Um, what's your kind of micro pivot there and being very specific with what you [00:26:00] would do with 50 K to get started apps to completed apps. beyond. Yeah. I feel like, you know, phone calls are great, but no one takes them. That's, it's also not money. Like Yeah. How would you spend the money?

[00:26:14] The 50 K? Yeah. What are you doing with the 50 K? Yeah. Or are you just saying, hey, we'll we'll give it all out through these phone calls and try to get people to complete? Or is there a way to spend the 50 K on Yeah. Stuff and things, um, to kind of push people through. 

[00:26:29] Tony Fraga: Hm. . I think if you're talking about incomplete applicants, I think they're stalling out for a reason and it's often not logistical.

[00:26:39] I think it's about brand and value. Yeah, and I think the default and what you probably already have in place, or if you don't have this in place, you really got some holes, you probably already have your. Post app, start nurturing sequences that remind them about all the deadlines. And hey, by the way, here's all the requirements and this is just what's left to, for you to finish your app.

[00:26:58] All the factual and functional [00:27:00] crap. 

[00:27:00] Jaime Gleason: our favorite, but we don't stay in the fst. 

[00:27:03] Tony Fraga: Where's the value? I think you need to throw all that out the door. Yeah. And I would spend the money on reinforcing, convincing them, cuz these are bottom funnel folks. This is not lead gen. These are people who started an app at one point.

[00:27:16] they were excited or at least thinking about this, but something's held them up. And I think it's a value issue. And this is the time where you do get the excuse. What I rarely would say is like, you do get to talk all about yourself. You get to reinforce value. Mm-hmm. , and you need student stories, you need video, you need, um, stuff that convinces me like why you wanna make sure you finish our application.

[00:27:38] Yeah. Among the others, you're, you're probably thinking about, and I actually think the storytelling. the brand value. This is where you get to brag about your value, the outcomes, why it's worth it. Mm-hmm. , don't talk about finishing the app. Talk about why. Mm-hmm. , your programs are distinct. Amazing. [00:28:00] Solve the pain or do the passions they want.

[00:28:02] Yeah. And let the value speak for itself and inspire them. Yeah. So that they then, Yeah, I'm 

[00:28:09] Shane Kehl: wondering if like, even if they have a, a program of interest or something that you can then go pull a student, you can pay a student to go make a quick video talking directly to Jamie. So Tony makes a video saying, Hey Jamie, I saw that you're interested in, you know, the business analytics program.

[00:28:22] I'm in it right now. It's awesome. I'm wrapping up my junior year. I've done these internships that the school connected me with. I'm hoping to end up working here, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're really like, it's the value beyond, you know, my salary's gonna be this. And like I think a lot of people tend to gear towards that when they hear about value of like, how much money am I gonna make after, but getting somebody to kind of expose maybe some of the opportunities and the things they're kind of going through while in college and not thinking.

[00:28:48] Great. That's value. That's like four years down the road. I don't mm-hmm. , I don't know. In an instant gratification world, I feel like that's, that's awesome. But there has to be some level of like, well, what's my now like the, the [00:29:00] As is state going to be, um, that I think could be really cool if you have some energetic students that are willing to kind of make those videos and hyper personalize them with whatever information is kind of already in their application.

[00:29:12] Jaime Gleason: You're Shane, you're such, you're such a millennial when it comes to your instant 

[00:29:15] Shane Kehl: gratification. I. Why wait when you can have it now? 

[00:29:20] Jaime Gleason: I know. I, I actually think it's, uh, I think we've, we've, uh, used the word value and I think value is important. I really think if we're talking about undergraduate students, and maybe even to a certain degree, graduate students, depending on the program, what we really wanna be talking about is the experience.

[00:29:36] The experience of like, what, what, and I think this, this scratches the itch of instant gratification is like, what's my life gonna be? , when I'm enrolled there, what's my life gonna be like? Like as I'm in this program, as I'm living on that campus, as I'm in blah, blah, blah, you know, figure it all out. And if we can capture, create a video that helps flesh that part out, and it, it [00:30:00] kind of goes back to our previous, uh, an episode.

[00:30:02] that we did a couple weeks ago where I talked about the letter writing in real estate, it's like, mm-hmm. . How do we write that letter to those students who have, are 30 days old now? How do we write that emotional appeal to make sure that they're recognizing this experience is gonna be different? and here's why you need to complete that 

[00:30:20] Shane Kehl: process.

[00:30:21] Yeah. Yeah. I like the idea of a video of, we've done blogs like this for clients before of like a day in the life type of style blog, but turning that into a video, capturing that student's kind of like day to day Yeah. I think is super cool. Especially on the undergrad thing of like, here's the dorm, here are the facilities, the, you know, dining mall, all that type of stuff.

[00:30:39] That's different than a virtual tour. That's a little bit, maybe more, 

[00:30:42] Jaime Gleason: yeah. I gotta give a plug. These photos, I gotta give a plug for this video series that this company. It's called onboarding Joey, or hiring Joey or something. Joey's is spelled j o i e, I think, and it's basically about a 90 day or a six month HR introduction [00:31:00] where she videotapes her experience.

[00:31:02] It's, it's like, it's, it's obviously it's very short little episodes, but it's super cool, uh, as like this different day in the life of. But unbelievable. Like it's very compelling. It's, I think a, I think a school that could create something that's similar to that. Like, you know, my first month on campus or something like that.

[00:31:21] Mm-hmm. totally kicks ass. Yeah. 

[00:31:24] Shane Kehl: Yeah. That's cool. Awesome. Um, any final closing thoughts on the 50 K? No. You still can't use digital ads. 

[00:31:37] Jaime Gleason: He's pretty bad about that still. 

[00:31:39] Tony Fraga: Well, cuz I would want to retarget, let's 

[00:31:41] Shane Kehl: say that you already have some audiences. You could theoretically still have budget. It's an extra 50 K.

[00:31:47] It's not, you only have to, so you might already have money in your, that you can do your digital ad stuff for him. There's your little cheat work 

[00:31:53] Tony Fraga: around if you need it. There we go. Yeah. I like, I don't, I don't, I don't think new lead gen. It's not for [00:32:00] new LeadGen. I don't make that clear. No. Right, right, right.

[00:32:01] It's too late. New leads from digital ads that you get. You know, May 28th. Waste of time. Very unlikely. Yeah. To make it from, from first touch to top bottom of your funnel and go from like thinking about this to buying it. Mm-hmm. That fast. It's just not all the data points towards that doesn't work. Yeah.

[00:32:22] And I, it's just for those of you out there thinking that, I really hope that's not your, because it doesn't work. You cannot buy new people off the street. At this point in the game. You're converting the people you already have. Mm-hmm. . I would wanna spend the money on any tools and tactics that can help me uncover more of the people who I already have, but may not know.

[00:32:43] Yeah. They could just be suspect visitors that I don't have. You don't have a conversion with. Invest in how you get those people. The ones already engaging with your content, so yeah. Awesome. Just wanna clarify, I wasn't wanting to do digital ads. When you lead Gen , I wanna re target existing folks You [00:33:00] have?

[00:33:00] Yeah. To get them to move. Yeah. Wait, what 

[00:33:02] Jaime Gleason: are you saying? That digital leads, no one applies now off a digital ad? Is that what you're saying? That's 

[00:33:07] Tony Fraga: it's crazy concept. Crazy concept. But just apply now off of a digital ad. I, I know is one of the low amazing, amazing, I know this is like separately as some people, as a, 

[00:33:18] Shane Kehl: let's clarify though, as a first.

[00:33:20] Jaime Gleason: As a first source? Yeah. No, no. As a, I mean, I know that when I haven't even been shopping for a car that if I get a digital ads that says Buy my, buy this car, I'm certainly gonna do that. Right. Least today, 

[00:33:30] Tony Fraga: Jamie. 

[00:33:31] Shane Kehl: How can you not? It's probably a deal too. Awesome. Okay, so to wrap up, um, you know, as usual, what's kind of going on in your guys' world?

[00:33:41] Anything new, exciting stuff you're working on that you want people to know? What's the hats? There's, Ooh. Is that a word? Is that a new, I don't know. I heard somebody say that one. What's 

[00:33:51] Tony Fraga: the hat? That's a good one. , another millennial thing. I know. Look, Jamie, we need to find a new host. I know. This is, this is getting out of control.

[00:33:57] I can take, I need to listen to my kids some [00:34:00] 

[00:34:00] Jaime Gleason: like, yeah. There you go. Uh, Tony, you go first. I, I have to 

[00:34:05] Tony Fraga: think of what I'm in. All right. I am literally working on right now our entire team. Take. We're not working next week. Sorry. If you're a client listening to this, we're not working for you next week. I mean, not directly.

[00:34:17] We're indirectly working for you, , but we go off the grid, we do twice a year, our annual dev days, um, where we develop ourselves and we get three days with our team. We're going to Atlanta and I am so stoked about this. The entire DD agency team is gonna be there and it's really all the direct development companies and, um,

[00:34:39] It's gonna be so fun. We work on professional development. We look at what's working. We do mock, we do stuff like the pivot. Mm-hmm. . We basically do pivots. We basically break our team up and make them have to react to pivots, , and then the best of the best. And we vote on it. And there's like money prizes.

[00:34:56] We talk about internal operations so we can get more efficient. We talk [00:35:00] about tactics that are working great and how to deploy them in unique. And then we come back from the stuff on fire. I love it. I'm, so, I'm working on our state of the Union and actually we're talking about transparency and ownership and what that means as a team.

[00:35:13] So that's what I'm working on right now. I love this stuff. It's so much fun. And um, this is probably one of the, one of the highlights of our year and we get to get together cuz we don't. We don't have this anymore. We're now what, over 30 people in every time zone in the country. Mm-hmm. love our remote team, but we miss being in person together.

[00:35:32] Shane Kehl: Yeah. And international. Technically shout out to Pat Gomez and Brittany who are in Baja, Mexico. Yeah, they're in 

[00:35:38] Tony Fraga: Mexico. That's right 

[00:35:39] Jaime Gleason: in the bus. Uh, what am I working on? Well, I just got back from some time away from the office, so I'm along with catching up from, with my email. Um, I'm also working on, hm. . I mean, I think the big thing is, and this sounds kind of boring cuz it's kind of like what you just said, but in a [00:36:00] bigger global level, like we do a lot of traveling in April and May for conference presentations and conference work.

[00:36:07] Mm-hmm. . So we're kind of gearing up for that, you know, making plans. I had, you know, a discussion earlier today with a buddy of mine who we'll be meeting up with in New York City at the Gem. Uh, which probably by the time this is airing, we'll probably be past that. Mm-hmm. . Um, but like, those are our big part of, of the conversations that we have and the big part of the work that we do.

[00:36:29] We just, we just got two more 

[00:36:30] Tony Fraga: since you were out, so I have to tell you about even two more opportunities to speak, so. Perfect. Awesome. We have hard decisions to make, Jamie. Yeah, I know . 

[00:36:37] Jaime Gleason: So, yeah, so just kind of honing the skills on those and then, you know, based on all those conferences, Then doing the follow up with the people who like what we were talking about.

[00:36:46] So yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm 

[00:36:48] Shane Kehl: working on. Exciting stuff. Awesome. Well, thank you all for listening to episode five of The Pivot. Hopefully we'll see you again in two 

[00:36:57] Tony Fraga: weeks.[00:37:00] 

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