Employer Branding Through Presidential Communications

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Eddie Francis: Throughout these episodes of I wanna Work there, we've had lots of discussion about how leaders influence and impact employer branding. That's what we talk about on this podcast. As a matter of fact, in episode eight alone, we explored how difficult it is for employees to be brand ambassadors of their institutions.

[00:00:17] When leaders, let me gather myself here. Micromanage. Got it out. So let's take a closer look at the impact of leadership, shall we? And we're gonna do it this time with Presidential Communications. Let's figure out how that plays a part in employer branding with someone known as the President Whisperer.

[00:00:37] Tarsa. Valerio Parrot, by the way. Do you have any feedback for us? We want to hear it. So let's have some conversation on LinkedIn. You can either follow me, Eddie Francis, or Inify or follow us both. Just go to the show notes to connect with us. Okay, so let's get into this episode of, I wanna work there with our guest.

[00:00:57] I. Teresa Valerio Parrot.[00:01:00] 

[00:01:05] No matter the institution, company or organization, everyone wants to find the best talent and everyone wants to keep their best talent. Higher education is no different. I'm Eddie Francis. I've worked at both Talent Acquisition. And higher ed marketing. On this podcast, we're going to explore the ways to create a great experience for faculty and staff on your campus, because in education, a great employee experience equals a great student experience.

[00:01:33] And who doesn't want that? We'll have some honest conversation. Get insights from experts and hear success stories from campuses. It's all about developing an attractive employer brand. Something that'll make the people say, I want to work there.

[00:01:53] Theresa Valerio Paris. First job out of college was special assistant to the president of the University of Colorado, and [00:02:00] Theresa is the principal of T V P Communications. She's also the co-host of a great podcast, the Trusted Voices Podcast with her partner in crime, Erin Hennessy, and Theresa's, also the co-founding editor and contributor.

[00:02:12] To inside Higher Ed's call to action blog that focuses on marketing and communications topics in higher ed. And I welcome you Theresa to, I wanna work There. Thank you so much for joining me. How are you? 

[00:02:25] Teresa Valerio Parrot: I am fantastic, and if this is, I wanna work there. I have to be honest, I have been for a while thinking I wanna be on that podcast, so thank you for having me.

[00:02:35] Eddie Francis: Well, good. Well, I'm glad. I'm glad we were on the same page about that. So, Theresa, in the time that I've known you, I have been in awe about your commentary about presidents, the conversations that you and Aaron have with presidents. Really, really good stuff. And you've been in this space where presidents and administrators since graduating from [00:03:00] college, which is very, very cool.

[00:03:02] A Monica that you've earned over this time is the president whisperer. So why is that? So I wanna 

[00:03:09] Teresa Valerio Parrot: start by saying there are some presidents who don't like that I have been called that because they feel like it means that they've been managed. And if you think about the horse whisperer, they feel like they are being cast into a category like an animal.

[00:03:24] And what I would say instead is what I really have been focused on in my career is helping presidents think through those really tough challenges and. What the communications outcomes are. And what I often experience is that presidents and chief communications officers will come to me and say, we're worried about communicating X, Y, or Z decision because of what the reaction may be.

[00:03:47] And I want them to go back and think through what is the decision that we're making and why, and then let's talk about what the communications are. If you're doing it for the right reasons, then you have to, as a leader, be willing to [00:04:00] take the consequences for that and the consequences. Doing your job. So the reason that I have that whisperer title is because I at least create understanding, if not ease, associated with those really tough choices in leadership decisions.

[00:04:17] Eddie Francis: What are their concerns when it comes to internal reactions? I mean, I think external reactions very much understandable. What about the internal reactions on campus? 

[00:04:26] Teresa Valerio Parrot: So I think there's this reality that most presidents, and this would be, I would say most people who are in senior leadership positions have had positive trajectories in their careers.

[00:04:36] And for most of them, that means that feedback and. So feedback, starting with, and then pushback is a next step feels uncomfortable to many of them because they've not had as much of that in their careers, and so there is that element of critique that can be really hard for leaders to think about what that means for them and how to bounce back from it and learn from it as a next step.

[00:04:59] I've seen [00:05:00] so many really good leaders who have doubted their own potential and then their own next steps because they haven't known how to process feedback and what to do with it. 

[00:05:10] Eddie Francis: So, so, all right, so let's take a quick step back then, and this may seem like kind of a Doug question for some people, but I think we need to make it clear and, and, and put it on the table.

[00:05:19] What makes the communications that comes from the office of the president so important? I. 

[00:05:25] Teresa Valerio Parrot: It should be that it's setting the direction and the trajectory for the institution. This should be more than just policy. This should be more than just superficial communications, and it should invite conversation, and I think that's where I really start to think through and draw.

[00:05:43] Into what internal communication should be. It is communicating out, but it also should be allowing for feedback in response. And that's where a number of presidents sometimes get a little bit nervous and they also get weary of what they're going to hear back. And I would say [00:06:00] if you think that you're getting feedback only from communications, you're listening to the totality of how people are responding to your leadership.

[00:06:08] Eddie Francis: Hmm, that's interesting. So I'm gonna ask a question, and Presidents might not like this question very much. So if you're a president listening to this, close your ears, what is the concern? Do you find that a lot of times the concern is centered on them? Or do you find that there are times that the concern is centered on protecting their people?

[00:06:31] Where do you see presidents fall? A lot of time in the times in 

[00:06:34] Teresa Valerio Parrot: that. I think there's a three-way split. I'm gonna add another category to that. I think sometimes it is self-preservation and I think I like to say if I could go back, I would've majored in psychology because often I like to think about the psychology behind situations.

[00:06:48] And you and I talk about this all the time. I. And so if it's about them, where are they in their career and what is the basis of their fear and concern? Sometimes it's about protecting their [00:07:00] people or their initiatives, and still sometimes that's tied to them too. Not always, but what is it that they're thinking about?

[00:07:07] And if there is a concern about their team or there's a concern about their initiative, then I usually ask them to peel that back a little bit. What's giving you the concern? Because if it truly is about the person, then do you have the right person for the right position, and then that's a leadership decision.

[00:07:24] If it's about an initiative or a project, how is it going and how do you know that and what are you doing about it? The third category I would say is that sometimes there are some decisions that are so big and so monumental. They're worried about the future of the institution, and some of these might be the range of.

[00:07:42] Do we stay open or do we close? Do we, how do we consider these programs? Do we take a big leap of faith and expand into new areas? Some of those discussion points that will set the trajectory for the rest of potentially their stint at that institution and potentially impact [00:08:00] either the viability or the range of successes for the institution moving forward.

[00:08:05] Eddie Francis: Hmm. And one of the things, one of the things I want to do, and, and I wanna be fair to executive leaders, especially presidents and chancellors, because, uh, I don't want to, I don't want 'em to think that that last question was kind of an attack question, but rather it is peeling back the layers, trying to figure out, you know, what exactly is going on.

[00:08:24] Because as our colleague Kevin McClure points out, um, If you have faculty and staff that are irritated, they're not satisfied. If they are tense, if they feel like something isn't quite right, if they feel like they're being treated unfairly, it's very hard for them to serve students in, in these cases. So that, that's really what I'm trying to figure out here.

[00:08:47] I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out how these layers peel back to really understand just how, you know, important the impact of presidential communication is because it seems to me, [00:09:00] Theresa, do you find at times when you are talking to, uh, presidents and other senior administrators, do you find at times that they have to sit back and realize for themselves, oh, wait a minute.

[00:09:13] Going out in that email was coming out of my mouth. Whether I'm doing something directly in front of folks, if it's a public speaking thing that I'm doing, if it's an email, if it's a newsletter, if it's something that I'm asking folks to post on a website, that really has a whole lot more impact than I thought.

[00:09:31] Do you find that they that, that some presidents have to sit back and come to that conclusion? I think that they 

[00:09:37] Teresa Valerio Parrot: do, I think there are some who come into it, hyper aware of that. And usually they're that much more hesitant to communicate and we need to, um, work with them on adding a little bit of humanity.

[00:09:48] And what I like to say is calculated vulnerability into their communications, right? Because you have to, as a communicator, if it's going to feel authentic and be authentic. You have to be at least a little bit [00:10:00] vulnerable in what it is that you're saying because you're building relationships. And relationships are about vulnerability.

[00:10:04] But again, you can choose how much or how little you want to share in that realm. And I think there are others who come in and they don't understand that what they have is a megaphone. And I would say it's like a megaphone with the repeater and. People see what they say as the word of the institution.

[00:10:22] And I think this was an interesting lesson that a number of higher education presidents learned. Um, way back in the day when they started on social media, they started to think that this could be, um, a. Uh, a casual way to, um, communicate with campus audiences, which is true, but with the title and the role of president, you have to take that seriously because it is still the word of the senior most leader, the visionary for the institution, and the person who is ultimately the boss's boss's boss.

[00:10:52] So thinking through how that is received is sometimes a big wake up call. And I think it comes to something bigger, [00:11:00] and you and I talked about this as well, and it's. Uh, being a president is an impossible job. I would never want that job because it's hard. It's not just the hours it is that everything you do, inevitably you're gonna hear back from somebody that it isn't something that they approve of, and that's a really tough spot to be in.

[00:11:18] But there are these options and opportunities for you to listen to what their critique is and see if there are ways that you can approach. Your job perhaps differently through vehicles, through words or availability or whatever it might be, so that you're better meeting the needs of your community. But ultimately, and Kevin's written about this too, being a president is the, it is just such a difficult, difficult job and you have to come into it with the mindset that you're open to, um, having all of your flaws pointed out and very few of your successes celebrated.

[00:11:54] Eddie Francis: It's interesting you bring up social media because as you know, I worked under the hip hop press, [00:12:00] Walter Kimbro, and everybody loved the way he managed social media, although most of the time, you know, what I saw with him is that he really, really communicated well with external audiences internally. His big strength was email.

[00:12:13] He really, he used email extremely well to communicate with employees. But there was another president I worked under, and I'll never forget, I had just. Gotten this university onto Twitter and I was finding out, I was figuring out Twitter really early on and I was like, man, this is some great two-way communication.

[00:12:32] I know how to get the university voice in here. And everybody goes, well, the president needs to be on Twitter. So I go to him and I said, okay, do you want to do this? Because I've seen where this is going. Do you want to do it? Because this is intense. And he was just like, No. So early on, that's when I really figured out just how intimidating also this kind of communication can be for a president because of that [00:13:00] vulnerability factor.

[00:13:01] And the biggest favor I think I did for that president is I didn't push him. I didn't say, no, you gotta do this, man. I was like, no, he needs to get, he needs to get comfortable and he needs to be able to speak his language and he needs to be able to be himself. And right now he's not there. And one of the, the other quick thought, when you're talking about an impossible job, I said this so much during Covid that I saw, you know, again, I, I was under Walter Kimbro during Covid and.

[00:13:29] I was watching him just try to make these impossible decisions. And if you're a Star Trek fan, I I, I was like, this is like the Kobe Hashi Maru. I mean, there is, this is a no win, no win. This is a no, there's a no win. And there aren't very many, there aren't very many Captain Kirks in the higher ed presidential space right now.

[00:13:50] Teresa Valerio Parrot: Well, it's so funny. Yeah. I was talking to David, Jesse, and he is a reporter for the Chronicle of Higher Ed, and he covers presidents, and I [00:14:00] was talking about how I worry about the pipeline because I. Those who may have previously aspired to be a president are seeing what others are experiencing and thinking, Nope, I'm good.

[00:14:11] Right where I am that's happening out. Yeah. Right, right. I have a dean that I work with and she's like, Nope, I have no desire to move any further. I have found my spot and this is what it is. And I think there is this self-awareness that leaders have right now. But I also worry that we need those who are willing to take a risk and to try that presidency route as well.

[00:14:30] So it's gonna be an interesting next couple of years for presidents. But I do have one tidbit to backstop the president that you mentioned that didn't wanna be on Twitter for my dissertation, I did a comparative case study for two Power five athletic institutions, and one of the presidents is not on Twitter.

[00:14:48] I asked him about that he's not on social media, and there were a couple of comments that people thought that it would've been helpful, and he said, there's a couple of things that were behind my decision. One is, [00:15:00] I, I know myself well enough to know I couldn't let those comments go that I would see on social media and the space that they would take in my head is space that I need to allocate to leading my institution.

[00:15:14] He said, and the second thing that I learned is that I needed to lean into my, my team. To give me feedback on how they think the institution is doing and the references that are tied to me so that it's not focused on me, it's focused on my institution, and I can continue to lead it better. He was just so aware of who he was, what his role is, and where that fits within an institution that I walked away from that and actually reconsidered.

[00:15:42] Should Presidents be on Twitter because he was so comfortable with his leadership approach and it started to make me wonder about how much of the chipping away of confidence and. Willingness to take risk. Perhaps some of our presidents are facing because they are getting that [00:16:00] instant feedback. 

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[00:16:52] How do you advise presidents about how their communications impact and influence faculty and staff engagement? 

[00:16:59] Teresa Valerio Parrot: I think [00:17:00] it's critically important, and I think it's everything from the format to the tone, to the length, to the frequency. It's all of it. And what I know our presidents understand is their leadership role.

[00:17:11] I think what they forget is the amount of time people have. Attention to what they want communicated. Increasingly, we don't have enough time. I was an interim position for a major research university during covid, and one of the things that I did is I limited all communications to 400 words or less. Go ahead and add as many hyperlinks as you want.

[00:17:34] And what we found is even at 400 words that was longer than some people had attention spans for, so we truly added A T L D R too long, didn't read at the very top of that because what we realized is people needed very quickly to see, is this something that I need? So let's give them a bulleted list at the top, limit the actual text to 400 words and allow them.

[00:17:58] To click away to get more [00:18:00] information, which was important for us. It gave us another metric for us to be thinking about what was resonating and what they needed. We had the open rate and then we could look back and see. Did they click from the T L D R link? Did they click from the link that was within the longer description, and which links were they clicking?

[00:18:15] So what was of greatest importance to them? And then we would start to tailor our communications a little bit more based on what we were seeing from our click-through rates, the feedback that we were receiving. And we also implemented internal feedback loops that had not previously existed. And so some of those questions or comments were, mm, Colorful and, and this is during Covid.

[00:18:40] So we also had town halls. And one thing that I stressed was, uh, first of all, I called them not town halls because we would take questions in advance, not live. So I called it a not town hall. But one of the things that we did is for the not town halls is I used the questions exactly as we received those.

[00:18:55] And the first time that we had a not town hall and a question was posed to the president, that. [00:19:00] Was quite colorful. You could just tell in the chat that everybody was aghast that we were gonna go there. Well, this is what you said you wanted to hear, and if we start to reframe your question, We're not answering your question, we're answering what we wish we would've been asked.

[00:19:17] So let's go ahead and reflect that you have emotion behind this and it gives the President the opportunity to recognize that the community has emotion that's important. And answer exactly your question. I think quite often what we do is we say, we received questions in this area, and so we're gonna answer it this way.

[00:19:35] And it's the answer, it's the question we wanna get, and it's the answer that we think is safest. Unfortunately, our roles aren't safe roles, and we need to make sure that we're meeting the expectations of our community. 

[00:19:48] Eddie Francis: That is such an interesting story because one of the things that, that comes to mind for me is that during the covid lockdown when we had pre, you know, [00:20:00] presidential communications coming through where I was, I also found that a lot of faculty and staff had to learn how to be employees.

[00:20:08] Like there, there were people who. Were so much in their world and they left so much up to the president, but then they realized at some point, well wait a minute, and we talked about this a little bit in episode eight. I have to practice some followership right now, so now I have to really dig in and I gotta get, I have to get involved in what's happening here.

[00:20:28] I can't just sit back and let the president shoulder the burden of the entire institution. Even though I am an administrative assistant. I have to play an active role now, and I have to really, really, I. Ha, I have to help the president. Right? So like we're all in this 

[00:20:42] Teresa Valerio Parrot: together. I thought, I thought that was really interesting.

[00:20:44] Right. We're on a raft, right. And unfortunately it's gonna take more than one person to get us to shore. I agree with you. I think it was, I think it was followership and I also think it was leadership. And one of the professors I work with still on writing projects, his name is Michael [00:21:00] Harris and he's at Southern Methodist University.

[00:21:02] He focuses on presidents in higher education. That's his area of scholarship. And one of the things that he and I talk about quite a bit is, This also was a moment for faculty governance, potentially and in some institutions to return to its intent. And that is, if you think about what the role of faculty governance is, it's to play a role in the decisions and the areas that involve faculty.

[00:21:25] But in essence, it also should be a bit of a relief valve for presidents because you should be that go-between, you should be that conduit as you advocate for the faculty. And it doesn't have to be an adversarial relationship, but the ways in which we're now constructing faculty governance versus university governance, we're creating it.

[00:21:45] So it's a loggerhead. So how do we get back to the intent of shared governance, which gives more power to be honest to the faculty, but also allows for that release valve for a president and for senior leaders to go ahead and [00:22:00] focus on their jobs as well. 

[00:22:02] Eddie Francis: So Theresa, can you think of a time that you saw a president who was able to really use their internal communications?

[00:22:13] In a pretty transformational way. Maybe they had to turn a corner, maybe they walked in the door realizing it, you know? Or can you think of a president who's, you can give him credit or not? But can you think of that situation and what stuck out to you about how that whole thing looked and why it worked so well?

[00:22:32] Teresa Valerio Parrot: I'm not gonna name the president for a very real reason, but here's what I will say. They embarked on one of those academic reprioritization. I e they knew they had to cut programs and they need to go through and evaluate the, the sustainability of their academic offerings and then make decisions. And so this president was very clear from the beginning, I'm not going to survive this presidency because this is what I've been tasked to do, and so I am going to do this [00:23:00] exactly how I think it should be done so that when I leave the community is still whole.

[00:23:05] Just think about that. That is an awareness and in some ways a servant leadership approach to this, right? I know I'm not gonna survive, but let's make sure the institution does. And so what this president did is they were so focused on sharing every decision, every point of where they had been, where they are, and where they were going, what was coming next, how people could be involved, feedback loops and different examples.

[00:23:32] Because again, their goal was about making the decisions and keeping that community whole. Not keeping their own powder dry, but trying to keep it dry as long as they possibly could so they could get to the completion of the project. And so the transparency that I saw from emails to in-person town halls, which always have a risk to social media, to website chronologies and everything linking so that there wasn't, um, a way to say you didn't know or you couldn't find [00:24:00] something, um, it was inspiring.

[00:24:01] I. It was that much more inspiring because this president knew at the end they were doing it for the academy. They weren't doing it for their own future successes. And because they approached it in this way, they actually landed another presidency and are doing really well. But that wasn't always known, and that wasn't an expectation.

[00:24:21] But the internal communications were so focused and the way that we continued to work in helping to frame those were, what does this mean for me? How will I be impacted by these decisions? And so as long as the framing and the feedback was tied to the individuals on the campus, people were willing to listen.

[00:24:42] They were willing to participate, they were willing to be a part of all of it. But what this president's goal was, is that the end, they couldn't say I wasn't asked, and I didn't know. And I actually believe that the campus felt that even for a project that big, but again, it was with the understanding. [00:25:00] I'm not gonna survive this.

[00:25:02] Eddie Francis: That leaves me pretty speechless because that's rare. That's hard to find. Yeah. I mean, in a world where, and there's actually literature on this in a world where leadership has an unfortunate side effect of the way leadership has been trained in some areas. Unfortunately, what has happened is that the message that a lot of people want to get in the leadership positions get is, well, I have to establish my personal brand.

[00:25:28] And you, you're sitting there like, No, you have to run the place. Your 

[00:25:33] Teresa Valerio Parrot: job is to run the place, right? Right. You were not there to be a social influencer. You will influence through your social capital and you will use your influence as a leader, but your job is not there to be an influencer in the ways in which we think of influencers.

[00:25:48] And I think there are some people, I was just talking to a president the other day and she was saying, I have had zero reasons to wear a ball gown. And then she started laughing and she said, but so many people think that when you're a president you're [00:26:00] going to these events and you're whining and dining and flying here and there.

[00:26:03] And she said, more often than not, it's two in the morning and I don't have a stitch of makeup on and I look awful and hope nobody is, is recording what I'm doing and I'm in the trenches. That's what being a university president is. You aren't going to galas and nobody is toasting you with champagne.

[00:26:21] Instead, you're probably there as likely to be picking up trash from you know, the side of the campus as you walk along, as you are to be making these monumental decisions that impact your institution. 

[00:26:34] Eddie Francis: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm really, I can't stop thinking about this, but the story is just though, so I'm really happy to hear that President was able to move on to another leadership position at, and that they are thriving in that, I mean, they are thriving in the new position.

[00:26:46] Right. I. That's great to hear. That is great to hear. So what I like to do is I like to ask my guests about the way forward, about ways that, ways that folks can build more [00:27:00] brand ambassadorship from employees, from faculty and from staff. So you have somebody right now who is the president. Who is an aspiring president.

[00:27:10] So even after knowing Thei Maru, they still wanna do, they still wanna do this thing? And so when it comes down to working with them, if you had to advise them, what do they need to realize about communicating in a way to encourage their faculty and staff to become institutional brand ambassadors? What is Theresa's advice?

[00:27:32] I 

[00:27:32] Teresa Valerio Parrot: think the most important piece is, again, thinking through what your calculated vulnerability ratio is. How are you thinking about that? And then the other thing that I think is important and. For whatever reason, this shakes out for a number of presidents is their calendars get too full with everything else, and being a part of the community falls off their radar screens.

[00:27:56] And even for the biggest of universities, those [00:28:00] presidents that we know are as likely to be seen as the football game, as they are dropping by the dining hall, walking across campus to their next meeting. Not everybody comes to them, but sometimes they come to other meetings. So they can be walking through campus, right?

[00:28:14] I think that that gives them the ability to be a part of that community. And where it's so easy for us to start to create an us versus them with a president and a community is when they aren't seen as part of it, right? It's really easy to cast someone out as other if you aren't, if you are other, if you aren't part of that community, if you don't have those connections, and I hear from a number of presidents.

[00:28:39] Especially when they're getting strongly critiqued that. They aren't being seen, they aren't being treated with humanity and they aren't being seen as a human being. And what I tell them is, have you presented yourself as a human being as part of this process as well? Because that ties into that calculated vulnerability.

[00:28:58] In order to be [00:29:00] human, you have to be vulnerable, and you can both be a leader and a human being at the same time. And that allows you to be someone who. Is part of community and is, um, accepted by others, but part of that has to be the concerted effort by a president, by their scheduler and by their team to make sure that they're making themselves available to their faculty, staff, and students are visible to the members of their community and are seen as wanting to be there.

[00:29:31] I think sometimes our campuses think, I think our institution is just a stepping stone for this president to go somewhere else. I think our president is just using this for their own benefit and for their own glory, I think. Right. Fill in the blanks of what we hear of some of the presidents that have distrust that is starting to brew on their campus, and it's because they haven't made themselves a part of what is the valued and trusted community.

[00:29:58] Eddie Francis: Wow. I have to [00:30:00] bring up that I heard. Three major things here, and I want to bring this up because this is such an important topic and if you have an institution that wants to be a, a, a, an employer of choice, how the president plays a role, and there are three things that I heard in all of your commentary.

[00:30:18] Vulnerability came up multiple times. It's really interesting to me how much it came up. Self-awareness came up, but I think the last thing that you said that really, really sticks out and I think is just such, such an important point. You gotta wanna be there. Like you have to really, really want to do this.

[00:30:34] And I think you have to really want to go through the AYA rule. Like you have to really want to take that on, right? 

[00:30:41] Teresa Valerio Parrot: And I think you have to already be thinking through how you're gonna survive it, right? And that's both personally and professionally because there are ways that you can survive this. You can thrive, you can be happy, and you can have balance.

[00:30:55] All of that sounds impossible, but for those who have gone into these positions, With [00:31:00] strategies for maintaining who they are and the leadership roles that they play, they're able to do that. And it takes your team being willing to do that as well. And it also takes you being able to trust your leadership team, because this is the other part that I talked to you about with a lot of presidents.

[00:31:16] If you think it always has to be you, you have a bigger problem because it means that you don't trust your team. That's either a you problem or that's a you and them problem, or that's a them problem, but you need to figure out which of those it is because you have to be able to delegate and you have to trust your team to be successful.

[00:31:36] Eddie Francis: Well, some presidents don't like it, but this is why she is the president. Whisperer. Sorry. Sorry, presidents. Y'all are gonna get over it. It'll be fine. You're okay? I'm okay. SSA's Okay. We're all okay. Theresa Valerio Parrot. She is the principal of T V P Communications co-hosts of the Trusted Voices podcast.

[00:31:53] Theresa, thank you. So much for being on. I want to work 

[00:31:56] Teresa Valerio Parrot: there. Thank you. I am so, so honored [00:32:00] to have been a part of it.

[00:32:08] Eddie Francis: I wanna work there as part of the Enroll five Podcast Network. If you like this podcast, check out other enrolled prize shows. The Enroll Fly Podcast Network is growing by the month with all kinds of marketing admissions and higher ed technology shows, and they're jam packed with stories, ideas, and frameworks, all designed to empower you to be a better higher ed professional.

[00:32:29] There are some great industry voices that you can check out like Terry Flannery, my good friend Jamie Hunt, Alison Turcio Meyers Dust. Ramsdale, Jamie Gleason and many more. Learn more about the Enroll Fify podcast network@podcasts.enrollfify.org. Our shows help higher ed marketers and admissions professionals find their next big idea.

[00:32:51] So, uh, come and find 

[00:32:52] Teresa Valerio Parrot: yours.[00:33:00]