Part 2 of 2: CRM Implementation Complete ✅ – Now What? Setting Up Data Governance.

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Mickey Baines: Well, good afternoon, Jamie. Welcome back for another episode. Great to see you, great to be back. It feels like it's been a long time, uh, since I've, I've seen you time in, in a matter of hours, but it's good to connect again. And this is part two of our series as we look at platforms and how we right size the solution for, uh, each campus.

[00:00:35] And, uh, and they're fit, as we heard earlier from Lynn Lipkin at the University of the Arts, uh, from his perspective as from the, IT. I'm very happy to welcome someone I've known probably for three years now. Right. Dr. Sas. It feels like it's been about three years. Umm, Dr. Terra SAS from Reynolds Community College in Richmond, Virginia.

[00:00:55] Dr. Sass is the Vice President for Enrollment Management and Student Success. They've been [00:01:00] using EABs, uh, Navigate product for their advising team for quite some time successfully. And, and happily using that, we've worked with them personally, um, helping them implement Salesforce for, uh, some of their admissions, recruitment and marketing and outreach efforts.

[00:01:15] And so it's really good to see how Reynolds has kind of grown and brought in more technology, really larger platforms, and finding the right way to build these solutions for these use cases. And so, Dr. Sass, uh, welcome to CR Improv. We're so excited to. Thank you 

[00:01:31] Dr. Terricita Sass: for having me, Mickey, 

[00:01:33] Mickey Baines: and nice to meet you, Jamie.

[00:01:34] Nice. 

[00:01:35] Jaime Gleeson: It's great to be here with you. Of course. And to talk. We lo Mickey and I love talking technology. And you know what I think is really funny about this technology is so personal, right? There's so much, there's so much personality that goes into it. So like lots of, uh, Different institutions have different needs and different flavors.

[00:01:55] And I think that's what this episode is all about, is like finding the right mix, finding the [00:02:00] right mix for your team and what works well. So great to have you here to talk about 

[00:02:03] Mickey Baines: that. Thank you. So I'm gonna dive in with some questions, direct questions, uh, uh, cuz I know you're gonna give direct answers Dr.

[00:02:11] Sas. Um, and that's one of the things I appreciate. I, I, we work with a lot of schools. I see a lot of leaders out there and sometimes they. Hesitate to make decisions and, and I have opinions, Mickey. Yes. And have opinions. And I know, you know what? That's exactly why I wanted to invite you on this because I knew you would share openly your thoughts and opinions on it and not sugarcoat it.

[00:02:36] And I think that's important. People need to hear that. You know, a lot of times, and I, I will say this. A lot of times in these episodes, but, you know, uh, vendors make promises and most of the time those promises are made with very good intentions, but there's not always clear transparency about what it takes to make the systems work the way they say they're going to work.

[00:02:56] And sometimes that's painful. Sometimes it's longer than we anticipate. [00:03:00] Sometimes it's cost or than we anticipate. So, so, Dr. Sas, um, I, I've already, uh, queued you up and told everyone that you've got two big platforms you're using from a student success and enrollment management perspective. How's that working for you?

[00:03:13] Dr. Terricita Sass: So, uh, one of the things I think is important is that we don't. A campus solution for all things. So the way that we have divided up our outreach and communications to students is three prong. One is what are we using to focus on recruitment? And then we have, what do we need to focus on with retention?

[00:03:37] And then we have re-engagement. So those are our three Rs. It would, I, I wish I could say we had one solution and it was for everything, but the individuals on our campus who are working on those three Rs need different things, and so, Part of our approach is we don't want to [00:04:00] overburden people with technology that they don't use.

[00:04:04] It's not technology close to practice so they don't have to learn all of this stuff. Um, and, and that works in some instances. But in other instances, it's not because you wish that you had known the conversation that was had with that student when they were in the application space. And I will tell you from an institution that has a large advising services, we, we focus on.

[00:04:29] Students zero to 30, and those are all staff advisors. And you have faculty advisors who are 31 plus. They're not really communicating with students, but with all of the squirrel of students coming in and out of higher education or having to do applications or whatnot, there are some holes. and all of us are not using one system because no one system at this time has been able to meet [00:05:00] all of our needs.

[00:05:01] And I wanna clarify, we have a system where, um, the V C C S is a system, so we don't, we're not able to purchase certain things outside of a system. So the e a B product works great for those enrolled. But it doesn't, we are not using anything like that. We're using Salesforce on the the front end. So it all depends on the audience.

[00:05:29] When we're talking about the technology and how much is being introduced, we're also working on data literacy on our campus. It's like when you look at that, what does it need and what should you do and not do? What do you disclose? What do you put in notes? That could be something. Somebody else sees that, they say that's a violation of a HIPAA or you know, some other types of things.

[00:05:55] So big data is something that we talk about. What does that [00:06:00] mean? How do we scale it and what are we using all these different, um, tools, um, for, so there's some overlap. Mm-hmm. as well. And I think having the. Of what each system provides and recognizing where there's overlap and making a decision, we're not gonna use it for that.

[00:06:20] It is overlap, but that's not where we're gonna go because it's way too many clicks for a faculty member. 

[00:06:25] Mickey Baines: But I love that you, you phrased it when you think about the faculty user because. That is typically, not always, but typically a user group that's more sensitive to too many tools, too Complexive tools.

[00:06:38] And if we want the results from the system, the system has to have certain actions taken within it so that processes can be developed, automated, and, and run and executed. And if it's too complex and people don't, Those processes don't run and things are left out on the table or are undone and holes widen and, uh, students fall through cracks.

[00:06:59] One of the things [00:07:00] that that stood up to me, as you're kind of describing that, is a lot of decisions have to be made to make that function and to figure out where are their overlaps, what we're go, how we're gonna use this for that, you know, what do we put in a note field? Um, what shared what's not, who, who on your campus owns the product and those decisions.

[00:07:21] Dr. Terricita Sass: So we implemented last year a data governance structure and that data governance structure identifies who the data owners are, um, who are the, um, a sponsor when we bring in a new technology, who's the executives? Sponsor and their role is to make sure that we don't have either duplication or we know where the duplication is.

[00:07:43] Are there differences in, um, definitions when you move across platforms? It's a lot of work just trying to make sure all of these pieces go together and it's not about the IT individuals. There are so many decisions that have to be. [00:08:00] that are not it, plug and play, they are function business processes, that types of things.

[00:08:07] So one of the things that I appreciate is having partners, our, um, partners who bring us these solutions to not only tell us about all this great product, they listen and try to figure out a solution to that. Mm-hmm. , but our data governance structure, and it's only a year old, was designed for that. That precise reason.

[00:08:29] Who owns the. Who shares, who says who gets access and why? Based on roles, not on relationships. And what's the training component and what void does this meet? What answer to what question? Not because someone had a really cool tool. I went to a conference and it was so great. It's like we already have something like that.

[00:08:52] They just don't know it, or, um, they don't have access to it. So I think that partnership piece, um, has helped us with. [00:09:00] Thinking about impact, how does the technology impact either the work efficiencies and functionality, or how does the technology actually support the student experience? And if it doesn't do one or two of those because it's somebody's new shiny that they saw at a conference, then that's just where they're just like, they bought something else.

[00:09:21] Oh, come on already. We're still implementing X, Y, or. 

[00:09:24] Mickey Baines: Yep. I wish I had a soundboard here to insert the applause button. Um, cause uh, I, I love that you, you talk about that data governance, a group that helps make those decisions. Um, we, we talked about that, uh, in our last episode in the role of the governance and sometimes they.

[00:09:42] Don't exist or they're not making those decisions. They don't have the right mix of, of individuals on the group to, to make the right decision, to understand the implications decisions. And then sometimes we've seen it get a little too far where, um, you know, they, they put in voting structures and it's gotta be on an agenda months ahead of time.[00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] Right. And, and, and before decisions get made, it may take six months before anything can happen, and that doesn't help either. Um, so why don't we talk a little bit about student experie. How, how is the technology best helping you improve that experience? 

[00:10:16] Dr. Terricita Sass: Let's say we're not, They're where I think we need to be yet.

[00:10:20] So let me clarify that. When I think about my utopia of the student experience, the student is not jumping, um, through links and clicks through an environment that looks different, where it's very clear to them that they're going to these multiple places and they can't go back in, even with single sign on.

[00:10:39] So you need to make sure that you've got this integr. So that it feels very smooth to the student. That's where this becomes a little bit jumbly because it's like, oh, well go out and register here, or the colors look different, or something like that. And sometimes they're confused, like, did I just go to the wrong place?

[00:10:58] Um, so I think [00:11:00] it's important that the student experience is seamless to the student and all of the resources are in a place when they go through their portal, um, or they use their email that it. Like the same thing. That is a, um, a difficult thing in some of these. Proprietary software packages. Let me, let me say it like that,

[00:11:24] And so it's like, oh no, well you were talking to so-and-so, so that's why it's in this platform. Or Oh no, you were talking to so-and-so, so that's why it's in this other place, because they don't have it. So that to me is, is problematic because we haven't nailed that one down. But that is what I would like to see for the student experience, and I'd like to be able to.

[00:11:48] No, when students have had contact with other individuals on campus, um, and I, um, worked with Salesforce with a, a, a different tool at another [00:12:00] institution and we decided that that's where all of it was gonna live, and we would put the appropriate protocols on it so you didn't have to be jumping and it didn't look different in the fonts and the colors.

[00:12:12] Students are very tech savvy. They know when you're taking 'em around a. 

[00:12:17] Mickey Baines: Hey, I know you're deeply engaged with this conversation, but we're gonna pause just for a moment for an important word from our sponsor. 

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[00:13:03] I, again, that's unincorporated.com/enroll. I. 

[00:13:09] Jaime Gleeson: I am kind of curious, uh, can I jump in? Um, yeah. Relative to the data governance, uh, f fact, the factor that you were just talking about, how far, how far in does that process go? Because I, I can imagine that it's like very, very kind of internal facing about like how do we keep records and, and how, when do we purge and all that.

[00:13:27] But how far out into the students experience does that data governance, like body kind of engage and what's that process for like bringing, like for instance, let's. , you feel that there's a gap in something? What's that process for bringing that into that conversation with the data governance, you know, whether it's an evaluation process or whatever.

[00:13:47] I'm just curious about what that looks like for you. 

[00:13:50] Dr. Terricita Sass: Okay, so, uh, I'll give you two parts that we're working on simultaneously. One is the data governance has representation from across campus, so you are gonna have [00:14:00] different people listening for different things. The other part of the data governance is that ideas.

[00:14:05] Kind of pop up. And that comes through our regular governance structure. And if it aligns with our strategic initiatives, then if it's something that is specific to data, then the data governance team will be charged with, tell us what the other levels are, what does this look like, do the research and then come back and make, um, a recommendation.

[00:14:27] So they're not operating in silos, but they. Be like in, in tandem. We do have things that come up that the data governance structure is like gridlocked on, and in our formal outline, those come to cabinet and we are the final decision makers as to how this is going to work. One of the things that's really helped Jamie, is that the fact, um, the assignment of access and the assignment of who can see what and does.

[00:14:59] [00:15:00] That actually is based on roles. So again, you get out of the personality, you need this cause this is what you are expected to do. So we haven't had a lot of issue with that because we have some very clear strategic goals and if it falls in one of those, we're gonna elevate that to, to get it moving and um, our.

[00:15:22] Um, Mel Boykin, she is, um, over our, um, institutional research and she leads that team mm-hmm. , she has a different perspective on how that's gonna work, and someone will say, that's great for faculty, but that's terrible for the student 

[00:15:36] Jaime Gleeson: experience. Yeah. Yep. That sounds like, yeah, it's, it sounds like a very well thought out, uh, process.

[00:15:42] So yeah. It's, it's fa it's fascinating to think through and it, and I wanna agree, it sounds like a ton of work. . It's a ton of work. . 

[00:15:52] Mickey Baines: And I think that's an overlooked part of it. Like there's a, a disconnect between the understanding [00:16:00] of all of those things to get these processes to work, finding roles, data, architecture, business process, and.

[00:16:12] Common 

[00:16:13] Dr. Terricita Sass: definitions. 

[00:16:14] Mickey Baines: Yes. And all of that agreement. And, and, and because the, so many other institutions don't see all of that, they then don't see necessarily a need from the get go to start with data governance because that's how all that comes alive. Or at least you become more aware of it. Mm-hmm. , as you were talking, one of the things that stood out, I know we're talking student experience, but my mind comes back.

[00:16:39] kind of this group and the ability to, to work your way to this level. Is there a, in your mind, is there a certain level of knowledge or understanding that needs, that someone needs to have to effectively serve in this group, both in business process and or [00:17:00] the technology platform? I 

[00:17:02] Dr. Terricita Sass: think yes, a certain level of knowledge, but we do have some individuals who have really good process thinking that are still learning the technology.

[00:17:14] So, um, I think it could, it's a combination of things to work the individuals on the data governance. Cannot tell you all of the components to everything that's happening in PeopleSoft and how Salesforce pulls this piece. They don't know about that, and they don't care. All right, so they're, they're learning and listening, but that's not a requirement.

[00:17:34] But they do need to understand, um, Either globally for the college, um, where we're trying to go, or in their unique role, enough about the technology to say, how might this affect X or how might this affect Y and ask those intelligent questions. So we've got a good mix of, um, on the committee, o j T, on the committee training O C T, um, but they [00:18:00] still.

[00:18:01] Really good insight. It's not a volunteer thing. Raise your hand if you'd like to be on data governance. So these are individuals that have been appointed because they have knowledge that can contribute. 

[00:18:14] Mickey Baines: I like it. Um, sorry, one more 

[00:18:16] Jaime Gleeson: question about that. Yeah. How, how big is that team? I'm just so curious.

[00:18:20] Do you know how many 

[00:18:20] Dr. Terricita Sass: members? I think about It's, it's what, between maybe 15 people. 

[00:18:24] Jaime Gleeson: And is that only for your campus or is that part of the 

[00:18:26] Dr. Terricita Sass: system? It's only for our campus. 

[00:18:29] Jaime Gleeson: Wow. That's awesome. That's incredible. It's only for our campus. Yep. Great. Do you 

[00:18:34] Mickey Baines: have, like in your stated vision or goals, you know, the role of technology in terms of how it's gonna support you?

[00:18:43] How, how, how embedded is that? Into whether it's yours for your division and departments or across the institution. 

[00:18:53] Dr. Terricita Sass: Okay, so, um, we do have stated, um, goals and we revisit those every year. Uh, we just finished our annual [00:19:00] report and one of the things in our, um, and it's actually on our website for the division.

[00:19:05] This is not for the college, but for the division. is that we, we are committing to do high tech and high touch. What are the latest, best practices related to technology? Not just say the word, tell me how you do that and actualize the high touch. And then how do you augment that with the high, uh, tech? And then how do you augment that with the high touch?

[00:19:25] What does that look like? Does that mean generating a list from Salesforce? Um, instead of this time it's going to be a postcard. Here's the list and now you're gonna make a phone call, or here's the list and you're not doing a. The, um, personalized communications that come right outta Salesforce, but it can actually say, here, it's time for you to connect with these students because they haven't had any movement.

[00:19:48] And so you use both of those together and that's where the technology helps you and you're not having to run lists or shoot, I forgot to run that last month. Those are the types of things that I wanna see us get to [00:20:00] because I, I've done that before and it's all in part of the communications plan. And communications is not just.

[00:20:07] Things that come through technology, but you can use the technology so you can communicate, um, on a personal level with those, um, potential prospective students or students that may give a flag that you now want to, to reach out to. And that's, again, in two different systems because recruitment is detached from, uh, re.

[00:20:29] Jaime Gleeson: Yeah, that's, so, I mean, so I have, I've been in, in higher ed for about almost 20 years, not quite as long as Mickey, his hair is a little lighter in his, in his head than mine, . Um, but I, I often kind of rail on the industry as, as a, you know, we, we often find ourselves kind of looking for the silver bullet, right?

[00:20:52] We look for that one magic piece, and I think. First of all, I know it doesn't exist cuz I know I've looked for it a [00:21:00] lot. But, um, but the other part is too, I think there's a part where it sounds like what I, what I'm hearing you say is like eventually you've gotta realize that there, first of all is not one size that fits all.

[00:21:12] And what you gotta do is find the, find the pieces that work the best, even if they're sometimes. You know, overlap. I love how you talked about overlap because I think sometimes we're, you know, we get trapped by like, oh, well we already have that and we have to use this part of that software when really this other piece of software we're looking at has a better version of that.

[00:21:32] And it has like six other things that we are really have gaps on right now. And I think that that's a important part of like this, this conversation, especially as we think about this ever increasing technological generation that's, Expecting so much, right? Mm-hmm. , they do not expect crappy calm flows.

[00:21:54] They do not expect, like things that are banded together, kind of, you know, if they only knew kind of what the [00:22:00] systems look like on the inside, it might be another story, but it's like they, they expect Instagram level photos. That are just looking great, that come through and speeds that are fast. And if it doesn't look that way, then they're out, they're going somewhere else.

[00:22:13] Dr. Terricita Sass: Jamie, you're right on Spark. Um, target, and I don't wanna, um, just overshadow, but you said something that sparked something to me. When we use the technology correctly mm-hmm. , we spend our touch time better. Yes. So if I have a student who has not had. Any interaction, do I really spend my time calling and trying to cultivate that student when they shown no interest instead of just my word, running a whole list of a 10,000 people and trying to, you know, tell everybody on campus yeah.

[00:22:45] You know, make, make a hundred calls. That's not the best use of our resources and our time. Time is money. And that's a valuable resource. So how do we deploy to make sure we're making connections based on. As to who's more likely to [00:23:00] enroll, who are the students that are right there at that gap, that we need that personal touch and the who are these students that are gonna come and they're gonna do, they're doing fine.

[00:23:08] Do I really need to spend as much of my time, uh, with that? So that's one of the ways that I think we have to think about how we use technology with the touch. Totally. 

[00:23:18] Jaime Gleeson: I couldn't agree more. You said it so much better than I did. I love 

[00:23:21] Mickey Baines: it. Uh, well, I think our takeaways, high tech and high touch. Um, Which is, is, is not brand new to Reynolds.

[00:23:29] I, I remember Dr. Sas since my first day, uh, meeting your team. That's been one of the pushes, uh, and it just drives home to me. If you start with this goal of what it is you're trying to do, to go about enrolling students with something as simple as high-tech and high touch, like, not that getting there is easy, but understanding what it means.

[00:23:52] is easier. You've got that in place, then the decisions become easier to make. Yeah. Which of the tools do we work, do we [00:24:00] use? Well, what gives us the best ability to quickly high tech and high touch it. All of those things start to play in and, and the decisions that are complex, that take forever to make are shortened, are easier and can be made with more intentionality and.

[00:24:15] I don't know that, you know, I, we've had, I don't know how many guests at this point and on various episodes, but I don't know that we've had someone very clearly explain it that way. Dr. Sas. So thank you huge for sharing that because there's so much takeaway mm-hmm. , um, that listeners can hear and walk away with.

[00:24:36] With immediate steps. Yeah. They can, they can easily hear what you've described for us and find what they're not doing and put some of those things in place. Again, not easily to get it all done, but I, to start identifying where the holes are and then it's, then you have to start plugging away. Um, so thank you.

[00:24:53] Thank you very much for, for joining us and sharing that. This is, uh, a fantastic, um, interview and wealth of [00:25:00] knowledge for everybody. So thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. Yes. Well, Jamie. We've done it, we've done it. We've, we've, we've hit a new high mark. So, um, I don't know that we're gonna be able replicate this type of success,

[00:25:14] Um, we've got a pretty hard, uh, pre our doctor stance. What are you doing every week from now on ? Yes. Our third, our third host. Um, you know, and I will, you know what this is, you say that to me cuz I was just thinking like, What if we brought on folks that would be willing to talk on a recording with some of their issues and Dr.

[00:25:34] Sas can just pick 'em apart and plug their holes. Oh my word. Amazing. Well, first you start taking all of our consulting business because That's right. I know for sure so, but that I. I was seriously thinking that like we could bring on people and she could just start plugging these holes for it. She could explain it

[00:25:52] Um, and people will listen to you before they'll listen to us. We're consultants, like they're, they, they think we have an agenda behind it. . Secondly, it's, it's to, to help them [00:26:00] do what you're already doing. Yeah. Um. So thank you again for joining us. Um, this has been a great, uh, episode and folks, I can't wait to, um, get another episode out with you.

[00:26:10] Hopefully we can top this one. But Jamie, good luck. 

[00:26:13] Jaime Gleeson: Yes. Nice to meet you, Dr. Sass. Thanks everyone for listening. Come again.

[00:26:42] Zach Busekrus: Hey, I, Zach, you're from Enrollify. I hope you enjoyed this episode of CRMProv. If you liked this episode, do us a huge favor and hit that follow and subscribe button below. Furthermore, if you've got just two minutes to spare, we would greatly appreciate you leaving a rating and a review of this show on Apple Podcasts.

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